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Post by kgp on Aug 30, 2008 20:14:41 GMT -5
I still haven't. And I'm okay with that. And you know, if there are more of these online only releases (yes?) and we can pick and choose rather than think "OMG, this might be the only new music Paul's putting out for the next four years."
For what it's worth, I've never been a huge fan of bonus tracks and demos (I think I have Boink!! and that's it). I don't know his motivation for releasing all this stuff now. I stopped trying to figure Paul out long ago.
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Post by wiser's deluxe on Aug 30, 2008 22:40:33 GMT -5
ok, so let me get this straight, Paul f*ukcs up his hand and goes silent for more than a year. then we finally get a taste of some new/old stuff when the first re-issues come out, and we're left relatively underwhelmed.
then, from out of the great big blue, Paul comes out with this novel, unique and dare i say it, wonderful, release called 49:00, and we spent 3-4 weeks going absolute ga-ga over it, and rightly so ... some 20 subjects and perhaps 1,000 posts ... and gtrplyr is kind enough to provide some fantastic artwork to go with it all ...
and then 5:05, 3oclock and finally come out, and while they're not on par with 49, but entertaining nonetheless, some of us now take the position that this is a schtick and akin to Paul "cleaning out his closet."
and now that's not good enough. we should all wish that Paul rejoined the conventional and put out proper albums like, jessica simpson, perhaps, or someone precious from the john mayer crowd. oh, joy. that's why we're Replacements' fans, because we've had it all so easy, and because there's oh so many of us, and we're so unaccustomed to the boys taking the path less traveled.
really? this keeps up, Paul could show up at your doorstep with guitar in hand and you'd complain that his shoes were muddy.
c'mon. schtick? if that's the case, i'll have more gruel, please, and i hope that closet's a goddamn deep one, cause these out-takes with Waits, I thought, were pretty amusing.
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Post by hudson99 on Aug 30, 2008 23:46:26 GMT -5
ok, so let me get this straight, Paul f*ukcs up his hand and goes silent for more than a year. then we finally get a taste of some new/old stuff when the first re-issues come out, and we're left relatively underwhelmed. then, from out of the great big blue, Paul comes out with this novel, unique and dare i say it, wonderful, release called 49:00, and we spent 3-4 weeks going absolute ga-ga over it, and rightly so ... some 20 subjects and perhaps 1,000 posts ... and gtrplyr is kind enough to provide some fantastic artwork to go with it all ... and then 5:05, 3oclock and finally come out, and while they're not on par with 49, but entertaining nonetheless, some of us now take the position that this is a schtick and akin to Paul "cleaning out his closet." and now that's not good enough. we should all wish that Paul rejoined the conventional and put out proper albums like, jessica simpson, perhaps, or someone precious from the john mayer crowd. oh, joy. that's why we're Replacements' fans, because we've had it all so easy, and because there's oh so many of us, and we're so unaccustomed to the boys taking the path less traveled. really? this keeps up, Paul could show up at your doorstep with guitar in hand and you'd complain that his shoes were muddy. c'mon. schtick? if that's the case, i'll have more gruel, please, and i hope that closet's a goddamn deep one, cause these out-takes with Waits, I thought, were pretty amusing. Post of the year! Bitching that 25 minutes of music that costs us $4 is fleecing the fans may be one of the funniest things I've heard on this board...particularly after so many of us have spent hundreds of dollars just to witness him being interviewed or playing two songs at his wife's book reading.
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Post by WsBigBrownBeaver on Aug 31, 2008 0:03:02 GMT -5
OK, I'm gonna call out Paul on this one. "Finally Here Once" is almost identical to INXS song "This Time". I found myself singing the INXS song as I was listening to this. Don't know how I remember this song... but found it on Youtube. What Cheese..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyybTFrbnm4
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Post by WsBigBrownBeaver on Aug 31, 2008 0:11:16 GMT -5
However, the Tom Waits stuff is great insight. Late night drunken blues jam session.... you can tell that they just sat there for hours playing and drinking until they passed out. The Monkey song is great, and the part where Paul says "Lets give this one some gusto and stand up.... none of this sitt'n down sh*t".
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Post by Kathy on Aug 31, 2008 9:12:53 GMT -5
Bitching that 25 minutes of music that costs us $4 is fleecing the fans may be one of the funniest things I've heard on this board...particularly after so many of us have spent hundreds of dollars just to witness him being interviewed or playing two songs at his wife's book reading. That is a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? It's puzzling. As much as Paul baffles us, I think we probably baffle him as well, or we would if he read the Web, which he doesn't, thankfully. One person thinks the Tom Waits stuff is great; another feels ripped off...if you're the artist what do you do with that information? I think the only response that would allow you to maintain your sanity is put out stuff that you believe in and do your best not to get caught up in the reaction, difficult as that is.
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Post by A Regular on Aug 31, 2008 10:52:52 GMT -5
Bitching that 25 minutes of music that costs us $4 is fleecing the fans may be one of the funniest things I've heard on this board...particularly after so many of us have spent hundreds of dollars just to witness him being interviewed or playing two songs at his wife's book reading. That is a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? It's puzzling. As much as Paul baffles us, I think we probably baffle him as well, or we would if he read the Web, which he doesn't, thankfully. One person thinks the Tom Waits stuff is great; another feels ripped off...if you're the artist what do you do with that information? I think the only response that would allow you to maintain your sanity is put out stuff that you believe in and do your best not to get caught up in the reaction, difficult as that is. Not really a contradiction. As one that went to both and spent some bills to do so I thought both were still great values as I knew what I was getting going in. I don't need to apologize for loving one and being lukewarm on another. It ain't about the money..... The Waits thing is amusing, and will be fun to listen to a few times. However, its not what I expect when getting new material. Would have made more sense to tag this onto the upcoming new releases in my own humble.. We've read that PW passed 60 songs along to management but what we hear is clowning around in a studio 20 years ago? And the comparison to wanting simpson and mayer is just a cheap shot.
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Post by pm on Aug 31, 2008 11:32:20 GMT -5
i'd pay more than $4 just for that harmony part at 13:34.
lots of these recordings are probably just recordings that paul likes to listen to and thought he'd share them. and he doesn't have any pesky label types telling him he can't or shouldn't so he did.
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Post by Kathy on Aug 31, 2008 13:20:21 GMT -5
Not really a contradiction. As one that went to both and spent some bills to do so I thought both were still great values as I knew what I was getting going in. I don't need to apologize for loving one and being lukewarm on another. It ain't about the money..... The Waits thing is amusing, and will be fun to listen to a few times. However, its not what I expect when getting new material. Would have made more sense to tag this onto the upcoming new releases in my own humble.. We've read that PW passed 60 songs along to management but what we hear is clowning around in a studio 20 years ago? And the comparison to wanting simpson and mayer is just a cheap shot. I don't think anyone's implied that you need to apologize for feeling the way you do, your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, we're just reacting to it. In terms of billing this as new material, when I originally posted it, I did say "new PW music" and that was 100% my fault. Darren sent me just the link, just like he did the first time around, I didn't ask any questions about what the music was, I just made an assumption that it was "new" music. When I saw posts that indicated there was some older stuff mixed in, I changed it to say "new download" to let people know a new file was available for download, and added the info that some of the material was from an old Mats session. Speaking personally, after all the bootlegged shows and unreleased material I've accumulated over the years, without a penny going to anyone in the Mats (or Paul for his solo stuff), I can't imagine what kind of shite Paul would have to release for me to feel even a little cheated out of $4....it would have to be freaking bad though, like 30 minutes of a PW drum solo. Actually, yeah that would probably do it! That said, YMMV and though I don't understand it, I respect your reaction. If more of these things pop up, there are people (like me) who will download them first and ask questions later, and so you should always be able to wait a day or so and find out what the reaction is and decide if it sounds like something you want to hear or not. As kgp said, and it makes good sense, people can pick and choose which one they want (assuming there are more of these).
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Post by A Regular on Aug 31, 2008 16:16:50 GMT -5
Oh, I'll still buy it as soon as available, it isn't all that big a risk. He's still batting .950 instead of 1.000. Again, its not about the money. I usually view all his output as gifts, but this felt the same as getting the xmas gift from the distant aunt..where you smile and say thanks but really hoped for cash instead of the new pajamas. I'm much more eager to hear some of the material written over the past 18 months and anything short is a bit of a let down.
I also wasn't making reference to any ad that it was "new" music. I just assumed it would be more like 49 instead of an audio diary of playing with waits.
and whats YMMV?
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Post by wiser's deluxe on Aug 31, 2008 18:04:13 GMT -5
And the comparison to wanting simpson and mayer is just a cheap shot. perhaps, but there's also some accuracy to it in my point of view. as Kathy said, you're entitled to your opinion and i do respect that (no joke). my point is that we've gotten so little out of Paul for the past year and now we're all seemingly up-in-arms because why: -- he's putting out too much? -- the format isn't ideal to "our" needs? -- it's not really new? -- we don't know where this is heading? -- there's no producer? -- it's too expensive? -- (fill in the blank)? really, that seems to be what all the bitching comes down to (and please note, respectfully, this is not a direct assault at you regular. i'm merely providing my opinion in response to some of the collective angst.). while the most recent stuff put out is not exactly brilliant, it's not entirely trivial either. and the fact that Paul is actually putting more stuff out is a sign that he's not slowing down and, perhaps, a sign that he's catching up on lost time. jess simpson and mayer have the fat-money reputation to be able to put out any goddam shite and it will sell. Paul either, doesn't have the major-label backing, or rather likes having his own control (or both), to eschew the conventional route. so to bitch about how he goes about his business is a little naive, don't you think? jess simpson and john mayer don't have such concerns. so if anyone wants normalcy in how music is distributed these days, the options are clear. hell, throw nickleback into the mix, too.
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Post by A Regular on Aug 31, 2008 18:47:29 GMT -5
thank you for explaining paul westerberg, his career, and the music industry...and for entitling me my own opinion.
but I'm not sure if anyone is up in arms. Most every comment shows gratitude for the recent release of material. Implying that someone that would like to hear more than casual experiments should therefore wants "normalcy" in their music and distributions doesn't follow any comment that I've read here. How that is accurate is beyond me. As someone that has caught much grief over spouting about the value of S/G and Folker, I really don't need a lecture about the value of non-traditional attempts at popular music. To state that simpson, mayer, nickleback are options for those that may be disappointed in 3 oclock is just silly.
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Post by wiser's deluxe on Aug 31, 2008 19:06:32 GMT -5
silly as those accusing Paul cleaning out his closet or referring to this as some schtick?
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Post by Kathy on Aug 31, 2008 19:54:32 GMT -5
Oh, I'll still buy it as soon as available, it isn't all that big a risk. He's still batting .950 instead of 1.000. Again, its not about the money. I usually view all his output as gifts, but this felt the same as getting the xmas gift from the distant aunt..where you smile and say thanks but really hoped for cash instead of the new pajamas. I'm much more eager to hear some of the material written over the past 18 months and anything short is a bit of a let down. I also wasn't making reference to any ad that it was "new" music. I just assumed it would be more like 49 instead of an audio diary of playing with waits. and whats YMMV? YMMV "your milage may vary", meaning, this is my take on things, with the understanding other people can look at the same set of facts and have a different take. For the sake of those who haven't heard the "3oclock", I want to point out that it is not *all* Tom Waits. Thanks to Hide n' Lurking for doing up this "track" listing: 01 Tell 'Em All, Go to Hell 2:49 02 Mash of Outtakes 0:44 03 It's Ridiculous, Everybody Wants to Be Famous 2:53 04 Only Excuse Is 2:15 05 You're Still Mine 1:05 06 If Only You Were Lonely [Mats in Studio with Tom Waits] 1:00 07 Studio Ramblings [Mats in Studio with Tom Waits] 1:15 08 We Know the Night [Mats in Studio with Tom Waits] 3:06 09 Lowdown Monkey Blues [Mats in Studio with Tom Waits] 5:08 10 Finally Here Once 3:27 I understand where you are coming from in terms of wanting to hear new music and I hope we do get more of that. But at the same time, if Paul wants to release a song he wrote and recorded 15 years, I'm just as happy with that as with somethign he wrote 6 months ago. We don't really know when he wrote any of the songs on "49:00" though we can guesstimate on some of them based on subject matter and previous sightings of them. Basically, anything I haven't heard is new to me!
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Post by Placemat on Aug 31, 2008 20:28:27 GMT -5
Color me confused, who's bitching & complaining about the new download? Folks are just discussing it.
Rereading this thread, the only bitching & complaining I see is directed toward those who might be underwhelmed with the release.
& Nobody has called this a shtick. A fear that future releases could devolve into such was simply addressed.
Maybe Gilligan was right.
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Post by wiser's deluxe on Aug 31, 2008 20:51:43 GMT -5
Color me confused, who's bitching & complaining about the new download? & Nobody has called this a shtick. A fear that future releases could devolve into such was simply addressed. And I'm leaning towards landshark and placemat on this one. Its also sneaking toward the line of self-indulgence when people release their doodles with a price tag. I'm getting tired of being a contrarian, I'm the biggest Paul apologist around, I just think that what was a stunning act of guerrilla music marketing from my all-time fave artist is suddenly looking like it could take a turn into schtick. But please, let's let PW get down off the pedestal, he's cleaning out the closets, making a little profit, and good for him -- but while "49.00" was a total bargain at 49 cents and an artistic coup to boot, the other releases seems to be at something like a market price, right? I'm not complaining, Kathy, but it's not like he's giving it away. no, mat, you're right. i don't see any complaining or, perhaps, hints thereof. some might couch it as much as they like, but i don't understand how -- and might i repeat myself once again -- Paul goes silent for a year, and then starts churning out a bunch of stuff, and he gets accused of heading down the line of "schticking" it to us or, on the verge of gouging us on throwaways and self indulgence? ... really, self-indulgence? we get 75 minutes of music over the past month and suddenly this is how we respond? color me confused, too. oh, and gilligan actually liked this release after questioning 49. i happen to lean the other way, but i'm down with that.
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Post by WsBigBrownBeaver on Aug 31, 2008 20:59:46 GMT -5
Assuming that most here are 30+ and have a job, the time cost of writing a complain email is surely more than the precious $3.99 or $0.49 you spent.
That is unless you are still working at the same Dairy Queen job you had when you first heard the Mats....
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Nickel
First Class Scout
Posts: 191
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Post by Nickel on Aug 31, 2008 22:11:41 GMT -5
Awesome, I love the complaining. You might consider it just a "comment", but some of you are bitching.
These releases are cheap for us to buy. You want Paul to give it away for free, or spend $100,000 to do a "proper" release so he can take a loss on it cause no one will promite it properly, even if he did a tour and interviews to HELP promote it.
Fuck, Paul has a 10 year old son (approximate age??) and he wants to spend time with him vs. going on the road for another year.
Good for you Paul. Put out all the songs you want, I'll buy.
Nine Inch Nails put out a crap CD and let people download it for free for 30 days then started charging money. Pauls stuff is better than that. Same thing with Radiohead and "In Rainbows". I just don't get it. This basement stuff from Paul is way better. I think most of us can "relate" to the man and his lyrics.
I wish him all the best. His music and lyrics are what does it for me, not the production value. If he put up a "donate to me" link, I'm broke, I throw him $10 just because I know his music is worth more than that, even if it didn't sell well in this shitty industry. In the meantime, Britney Spears can afford a multimillion dollar breakdown and divorce 100 times over, and still live large.
Something is wrong in world.
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Post by FreeRider on Aug 31, 2008 22:27:45 GMT -5
....These releases are cheap for us to buy. You want Paul to give it away for free, or spend $100,000 to do a "proper" release so he can take a loss on it cause no one will promite it properly, even if he did a tour and interviews to HELP promote it. Fuck, Paul has a 10 year old son (approximate age??) and he wants to spend time with him vs. going on the road for another year. Good for you Paul. Put out all the songs you want, I'll buy. I'm with ya on this; I'll buy because I'm interested in what this man has to put out. And I'll give him the space and freedom to have a life outside of what he does for a living while eagerly awaiting anything he wants to put out. Now whether or not I like it all is another question. I agree, I've gotten so much from Paul's music that if he asked for help with legal fees for being sued, I'd be the first guy to donate to his legal defense fund. I don't feel cheated at all but I can see how some fans feel wary about the latest downloadable. I just don't feel like I'm in a position to demand something from the guy.
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Post by hootenanny58 on Aug 31, 2008 22:43:38 GMT -5
Has Paul ever mentioned anything about Waits anywhere, other than the session they did together? It doesn't seem like he's all that much of a fan -- or if so, he's kept it to himself pretty well. I think when Tom Waits sets aside some of his more surreal/impressionist material to make room for his ballads - "Downtown Train", "Take It With Me" come to mind at random - he and Paul seem to share some sort of kinship. Both have a knack for appealing to universal themes of simultaneous anguish and triumph.
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