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Post by hudson99 on Aug 27, 2008 23:16:46 GMT -5
So are Mick & Keith (or Andrew Loog Oldham, or ABCKO, or Allen Klein, or whoever owns the Stones' songs) going to sue because of the few seconds of "Play With Fire" on 3oclockreep? Andrew Loog Oldham sued (and won!) against the Verve for the whole "Bittersweet Symphony" thing. It wasn't Oldham who sued; it was Allen Klein, who outright owns all of the pre-Sticky Fingers Stones material.
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Schecky
Star Scout
401-Fichier non trouv
Posts: 693
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Post by Schecky on Aug 28, 2008 1:46:04 GMT -5
Wow, Christmas in July (in August)! Tom Waits too.
One of the few positives in the suckiest summer I have ever experienced.
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ih8music
Star Scout
couldn't be happier.
Posts: 943
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Post by ih8music on Aug 28, 2008 2:54:35 GMT -5
I like this new Paul-Has-Lost-His-Mind phase of his career. i like this term.
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Post by Man Who Never Learned to Fly on Aug 28, 2008 9:10:20 GMT -5
It wasn't Oldham who sued; it was Allen Klein, who outright owns all of the pre-Sticky Fingers Stones material. Well. let's see if Klein is going to get litigious on Paul. If the milliseconds of all those other songs really did 49:00 in, then I guess Klein could go after Paul for the milliseconds of "Play With Fire."
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cford
Star Scout
Posts: 803
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Post by cford on Aug 28, 2008 9:31:12 GMT -5
I assume Tom Waits had to approve this release? And Rhino/Ryko too (because they own the rights to the Mats' stuff)? Anyhow, download it while you can. Well, this could be a Westerberg taunt ("I dare you to sue me!)..He might feel like he is on solid ground here.. Waits probably signed over the Matt Wallace produced sessions years ago..("Date to Church" was released without issue)...And it would be unusual for a record company to go after an artist for stealing his own stuff -- although its happened before! CF
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Post by FreeRider on Aug 28, 2008 9:57:30 GMT -5
.... Waits probably signed over the Matt Wallace produced sessions years ago..("Date to Church" was released without issue)...And it would be unusual for a record company to go after an artist for stealing his own stuff -- although its happened before! CF Didn't David Geffen sue Neil Young for some ridiculous reason like, "not being characteristically Neil Young"? I thought I read that Neil purposely put out some albums that went contrary to what Geffen wanted because he felt Geffen was trying to strong arm him and dictate to him what to do.
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Post by velvetgefiltefish on Aug 28, 2008 10:05:52 GMT -5
I remember Paul saying in an interview somewhere (i think it was the Magnet 2002 interview, but not entirely sure on that one) that they recorded a bunch of stuff with Waits on that day in 1988, but Island Records (Waits' label back then) wouldn't sanction the release of certain tracks because they had "too much Tom Waits on them." I don't know how literally to take that, but it's true that Waits plays very much a supporting (rather than a co-starring) role on the one released track from those sessions, "Date to Church" -- backing vocals, organ.
I read an interview with Waits in 1987 where he was asked what up-and-coming musicians he liked, and he named the Pogues and the Replacements. It was clear he'd gone to at least one Mats show, and he compared the audience "moshing" going on up near the stage to an ant colony (a little obsessed with insects, he is. Check out "Army Ants" on the Orphans box). He also mentioned really liking the fact that Tommy had dropped out of school at 14 or 15 to hit the road, playing rock 'n roll and sucking on a bottle of whiskey.
Has Paul ever mentioned anything about Waits anywhere, other than the session they did together? It doesn't seem like he's all that much of a fan -- or if so, he's kept it to himself pretty well.
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Post by landshark on Aug 28, 2008 10:06:03 GMT -5
Hey, sorry to jump away from the subject of lawsuits, but does anyone else get the sense that this scene could be unfolding chez Westerberg:
Laurie: How are we gonna pay for the next tank of heating oil? Paul: Way ahead of ya, I'm going to chuck some more stuff on the Internet, my fans'll buy anything. Want a new dress?
Don't get me wrong, I just bought and downloaded the new tracks, can't wait to listen ... but if this keeps up it's going to feel less like art and more like a guy whipping off sidewalk caricatures in front of the museum.
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Post by adamapple on Aug 28, 2008 10:29:19 GMT -5
well "date to church" was initally relaesed as the b-side to i'll be you..
.i do enjoy the banter talking and tom not being able to figure out what song he wants to play, and paul keeps on saying "WHAT?!?!?!?"....they are obviously well into their respective bottles at that point....this also proves paul's point where he's said.."we would record a bunch of stuff at night thinking it was great, then come back in the next monring and relaize it was crap!!.."..this seems like paul playing devil's advocate to his own myth a bit, which i enjoy.....
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Post by Kathy on Aug 28, 2008 10:50:17 GMT -5
Hey, sorry to jump away from the subject of lawsuits, but does anyone else get the sense that this scene could be unfolding chez Westerberg: Laurie: How are we gonna pay for the next tank of heating oil? Paul: Way ahead of ya, I'm going to chuck some more stuff on the Internet, my fans'll buy anything. Want a new dress? Don't get me wrong, I just bought and downloaded the new tracks, can't wait to listen ... but if this keeps up it's going to feel less like art and more like a guy whipping off sidewalk caricatures in front of the museum. Eeeek. "My fans'll buy anything"? That's a harsh comment. Not to say you're not entitled to feel that's what Paul is thinking just that I think...ouch. Paul doesn't strikes me as someone who is out to wring every last dime from his fans. I love Bruce and I love Wilco, but Bruce releases something, then releases a 'special version" of the same thing with 2 other songs, so you have to buy the whole thing over again to get them. I'm not fond of that. And Wilco sells everything from Wilco action figures to Wilco dog sweaters on their site...nothing wrong with it, but those are examples of how bands maximize profits from fans. See also, insanely high tickets prices that many bands charged and reunion tours put together by bands that can't stand playing together anymore but want to keep the money pouring in.
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Post by Man Who Never Learned to Fly on Aug 28, 2008 10:59:07 GMT -5
And if Paul really wanted to wring us out of all of our cash, he'd have gone to iTunes and charged $9.99 for each of these releases.
I somehow doubt that at these prices -- 49 cents, 99 cents, $3.99 -- Paul's raking in a windfall.
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Post by pm on Aug 28, 2008 11:55:15 GMT -5
hell yes! great news. i'm going to attempt a download from work. the IT department doesn't approve of this sort of behavior, but paul has this way of making me feel reckless and young again. i agree, this music is making this a memorable summer and i hope pw continues with these releases.
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Post by karenripington on Aug 28, 2008 12:04:10 GMT -5
i agree, this music is making this a memorable summer and i hope pw continues with these releases. me too - keep 'em comin' - please
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Post by FreeRider on Aug 28, 2008 12:17:12 GMT -5
I never got the sense that Paul was cynical about his fanbase like that. And I don't get the vibe that he's releasing stuff that diminishes what he does....I'd like to think that he's got some real gems in the vault, some stuff that is really meaningful to him, that will be released on CD and not this compressed format.
This might be just stuff he wanted to get out there to keep us happy for the moment, a harbinger of more cool stuff to come!
And yeah, it's not like he's going to be paying off the 505 lawyer fees with a $3.99 download cost.
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nazareth
Star Scout
All men are Liars.......
Posts: 537
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Post by nazareth on Aug 28, 2008 12:19:58 GMT -5
Count me in as one of the fans that WILL buy anything he puts out. He hasn't put this much stuff out since Stero/Mono DMS/CFMT. I'll take as much as i can get. Keep it comin' Paul.
Some of this is definitely 'mats, but there's some of his more recent drumming i hear every once in a bit.
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nazareth
Star Scout
All men are Liars.......
Posts: 537
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Post by nazareth on Aug 28, 2008 12:25:42 GMT -5
Also....
Does anybody hear a bit of "We are the normal" at 3:18? I would LOVE to hear Paul's version of this. I forgot about that song he wrote for the Goos. I know he only wrote the lyrics, but i'm sure there's a version out there with his vocals on it.
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ndesimon
First Class Scout
well she's a ramp rat...
Posts: 163
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Post by ndesimon on Aug 28, 2008 14:11:59 GMT -5
And Wilco sells everything from Wilco action figures to Wilco dog sweaters on their site... confesses: I'd probably stand in line all night - in the pouring rain - for a PW action figure.
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Post by landshark on Aug 28, 2008 14:37:45 GMT -5
Hey, sorry to jump away from the subject of lawsuits, but does anyone else get the sense that this scene could be unfolding chez Westerberg: Laurie: How are we gonna pay for the next tank of heating oil? Paul: Way ahead of ya, I'm going to chuck some more stuff on the Internet, my fans'll buy anything. Want a new dress? Don't get me wrong, I just bought and downloaded the new tracks, can't wait to listen ... but if this keeps up it's going to feel less like art and more like a guy whipping off sidewalk caricatures in front of the museum. Eeeek. "My fans'll buy anything"? That's a harsh comment. Not to say you're not entitled to feel that's what Paul is thinking just that I think...ouch. Paul doesn't strikes me as someone who is out to wring every last dime from his fans. I love Bruce and I love Wilco, but Bruce releases something, then releases a 'special version" of the same thing with 2 other songs, so you have to buy the whole thing over again to get them. I'm not fond of that. And Wilco sells everything from Wilco action figures to Wilco dog sweaters on their site...nothing wrong with it, but those are examples of how bands maximize profits from fans. See also, insanely high tickets prices that many bands charged and reunion tours put together by bands that can't stand playing together anymore but want to keep the money pouring in. When I wrote my little fiction of Paul and Laurie discussing bills over the kitchen table I hadn't even heard 3oclockreep yet. Now I have. I was amused by the banter. Liked some of the songs. For $3, I don't feel ripped off -- partly because I've been a PW fan for 23 years and counting. He's not a cynical rip-off artist who is abusing his fans. None of my cynicism applies to either 49:00, which is definitely a sincere piece of art, or 5:05, which is an interesting piece of protest. But 3oclockreep? Come on ... there's at least 8-10 minutes of pure drivel on that track. We give him shit for including "Actor in the Street" as one track on an album, but we can't imagine that minutes of studio banter is a joke? Isn't it possible that Paul is amused by the idea that he can whip this stuff out and we're lapping it up? It's like an ATM machine connected to someone else's account! Believe me, I'm happy, for now anyway, to throw my coins in the case because Paul is a wonderful artist and he's never been one to whore himself and exploit the fanbase, but all those pictures where he's giving the camera the finger ... I mean, it's you and me he's looking at, and I can't help but feel like a little bit of the joke's on us. I'm not upset ... I just think it's funny.
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Post by hudson99 on Aug 28, 2008 14:43:08 GMT -5
I really don't think the couple of hundred people or so that are "lapping" these tracks up are causing that great of a difference in Paul's bank account.
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Post by FreeRider on Aug 28, 2008 14:47:09 GMT -5
well, again, the 20 minute file seems more like a collector's item for the completist, having the studio out takes and the demo version of "backlash" riff and stuff like that throw in the mix. it's almost like he's teasing us with the snippets of some stuff that we'd want to hear in its entirety.
yeah, it's got some filler with the banter, but i'm hoping it's just a foreshadowing of more gems to come in an actual CD release of some great songs he's got in the vault and not a compressed downloadable file.
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