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Post by Kathy on Aug 28, 2008 15:15:33 GMT -5
But 3oclockreep? Come on ... there's at least 8-10 minutes of pure drivel on that track. We give him shit for including "Actor in the Street" as one track on an album, but we can't imagine that minutes of studio banter is a joke? I think the "drivel" is fun - not art or stellar music, just fun. I've always wondered about the sessions with Tom Waits and got a huge kick out of getting to listen in on a bit of it. That said, I can understand it's not everyone's cup of tea. But I just don't see Paul sitting in his basement cackling in delight at offloading a bunch of crap on us and having us think it's pure gold. I think it is what it is: a chance to eavesdrop on a couple of very talented, very inebriated guys fucking around on guitars and having themselves a little hootenanny. You really think Paul thinks we're fools for finding it fun to hear a little bit of that?
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Post by mrwhirly on Aug 28, 2008 16:24:34 GMT -5
Funny thing, I listened to "Finally here once" on the way to Chili's today for lunch. As soon as I entered the restaurant they were blasting "this time" by INXS (my favorite song by them). I made the connection that they were very similar without even having to actually listen to both. But hearing it definitely solidified it, as if Mike Hutchence was channelling himself through the Chili's sound system!
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Post by landshark on Aug 28, 2008 17:08:06 GMT -5
But 3oclockreep? Come on ... there's at least 8-10 minutes of pure drivel on that track. We give him shit for including "Actor in the Street" as one track on an album, but we can't imagine that minutes of studio banter is a joke? I think the "drivel" is fun - not art or stellar music, just fun. I've always wondered about the sessions with Tom Waits and got a huge kick out of getting to listen in on a bit of it. That said, I can understand it's not everyone's cup of tea. But I just don't see Paul sitting in his basement cackling in delight at offloading a bunch of crap on us and having us think it's pure gold. I think it is what it is: a chance to eavesdrop on a couple of very talented, very inebriated guys fucking around on guitars and having themselves a little hootenanny. You really think Paul thinks we're fools for finding it fun to hear a little bit of that? No I don't think he thinks we're fools for finding it fun ... it is fun, at least in my cup of tea. And hey, it is a free market, he's not charging much, no one is forced to buy it, and none of us go in expecting that we're going to get a Paul Westerberg masterpiece ... FreeRider's right, it's for the completists in the crowd. But if it were pure fun he could have sent it over to Man Without Ties so we could hear it streaming ... it's not just fun, it's commerce. I just think that coming from a guy who has put out, or allowed to be put out, products with names like "Shit Hits the Fans" and "Don't Buy or Sell, It's Crap," he is a self-deprecating guy who is not so vain as to think that his every breath is pure gold ... so following on his experience with internet sales 49:00 and 5:05, I bet he thinks it is pretty funny to see if he can pull in a few bucks for a track that is more historically interesting odds & ends ... I mean, Runaway Wind didn't do what it was "supposed" to, so why not go to the other extreme -- it's all kind of a goof from a guy who has had some hard experience with the hit-making machine. I know he's not getting rich off this ... but I'm sure he's not doing it for his health. It generates some buzz and excitement, maybe sets up an upcoming album as Free Rider points out, and brings in a couple of dollars ... why not, it's easier and more effective than playing his guitar next to a subway stop. I'm really not trying to put Paul down or put down anyone who buys or digs this stuff ... I dig it myself. But I bet if Paul's next release was a recording of the dinner table conversation at his house with a couple of chord progressions thrown in, a bunch of us would buy it ... and, if he wasn't mortified by the invasion of his privacy, Paul would find that a pretty funny -- no, ridiculous -- scenario. And by the way, I love Actor in the Street.
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Post by kgp on Aug 28, 2008 17:53:25 GMT -5
Gingerly entering the conversation, as I haven't even bought the two new songs nor "5:05," but I see your point, landshark. Given that some of this material isn't new, it does have an element of "fire sale Westerberg." I guess if this is going to be a regular thing now, we can afford to be a little choosy. (Don't get me wrong, I'd gladly pay the $10 for a full album from iTunes or wherever, and was more than happy to plunk down my pocket change for 49:00.)
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Post by Placemat on Aug 28, 2008 19:08:30 GMT -5
but I see your point, landshark. Ditto. But hey, most of these recent songs will probably never be released in a more finished state, & I'd rather hear unfinished snippets, riffs, shit, etc. than never hear it at all. Beats Paul just erasing it. & At the current prices, nobody should be complaining. Keep 'em coming.
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Post by Kathy on Aug 28, 2008 19:54:51 GMT -5
You'd think, wouldn't you?
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Post by hudson99 on Aug 28, 2008 21:56:06 GMT -5
Sure, this latest release is more of a novelty than "49:00". But I'm still more than happy that it's out there, and I pray that we continue to see more of this stuff released over the next few months.
For those of you naysayers, I just have one question. What would your reaction be if this material showed up on a bootleg? We'd all be freaking out. From the moment I discovered boots of Dylan, the Stones, and the Beatles, I've always said I'd rather pay for legit copies than the bootleggers. Obviously, in these days of torrents and trading, there's no money being exchanged for boots, but I'd still much rather get rare recordings directly from the artist.
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Post by landshark on Aug 28, 2008 23:04:20 GMT -5
Sure, this latest release is more of a novelty than "49:00". But I'm still more than happy that it's out there, and I pray that we continue to see more of this stuff released over the next few months. For those of you naysayers, I just have one question. What would your reaction be if this material showed up on a bootleg? ... I'd still much rather get rare recordings directly from the artist. Hudson, excellent point re bootlegs, I'd much rather give the $$ to Paul than someone who stole the masters 20 years ago. And I guess I'm the naysayer who inaccurately claimed that 8-10 minutes of "3ocklock" was banter/drivel -- I was wrong to say that, really there's a lot more music -- and musicality -- on the track than I was giving him credit for. But please, let's let PW get down off the pedestal, he's cleaning out the closets, making a little profit, and good for him -- but while "49.00" was a total bargain at 49 cents and an artistic coup to boot, the other releases seems to be at something like a market price, right? I'm not complaining, Kathy, but it's not like he's giving it away. I'm getting tired of being a contrarian, I'm the biggest Paul apologist around, I just think that what was a stunning act of guerrilla music marketing from my all-time fave artist is suddenly looking like it could take a turn into schtick.
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Post by Placemat on Aug 28, 2008 23:41:48 GMT -5
...I just think that what was a stunning act of guerrilla music marketing from my all-time fave artist is suddenly looking like it could take a turn into schtick. Well said. That is the danger.
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Post by willbueche on Aug 29, 2008 0:32:31 GMT -5
So is there really some of the demo for Backlash in this? Is it the demo with Joan or is it Paul alone? I still really like that song -- I have Backlash followed by Let's Do It in my itunes. They're great together.
I am probably skipping this since I don't like Tom Waits and it does feel like he's exploiting folks who can't find 49 anymore. But I like that he's releasing stuff.
And I like that 505 was 320 kbps, compared to 49's crappy 256ps. It really saddens me that all that may survive of 49 is a 256 kbps version, since even if an official release on CD comes out it will probably be edited to avoid the medley problems.
Didn't Monolith say that had a ton of Grandpaboy material? Most folks (Kathy excepted) never got Undone and I Want My Money Back on anything other than scratchy vinyl or lossy mp3. Roll out a flac, Monolith! Thanks.
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Post by pm on Aug 29, 2008 4:06:04 GMT -5
finally had a chance to listen to it. on first listen it reminds me of the let it be (beatles version!) naked tack "fly on the wall." very fun listen for sure.
"i'm a lowdown sack of shit. but at least i know what i am and you'll have to deal with it."
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bombpop
Star Scout
take me where the action ain't
Posts: 541
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Post by bombpop on Aug 29, 2008 6:20:11 GMT -5
...I just think that what was a stunning act of guerrilla music marketing from my all-time fave artist is suddenly looking like it could take a turn into schtick. Well said. That is the danger. Really...really? Would anyone actually be shocked if PW somehow found a way to turn a stunning musical act into shtick? At some point as a PW supporter, you have to acknowledge what you're signing up for. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the basement...so to speak. Viva la legacy!
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Post by mrblasty on Aug 29, 2008 6:37:50 GMT -5
I wanna hear the full version of "We know the Night" that appears on this track. Sounds great with the three part harmony.
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Post by Kathy on Aug 29, 2008 7:22:00 GMT -5
But please, let's let PW get down off the pedestal, he's cleaning out the closets, making a little profit, and good for him -- but while "49.00" was a total bargain at 49 cents and an artistic coup to boot, the other releases seems to be at something like a market price, right? I'm not complaining, Kathy, but it's not like he's giving it away. I'm getting tired of being a contrarian, I'm the biggest Paul apologist around, I just think that what was a stunning act of guerrilla music marketing from my all-time fave artist is suddenly looking like it could take a turn into schtick. Complaining is our god-given right, we are America, home of the free and complaining and I'm no exception, I coud complain your ear off about a million things. Just not this. It's not about having him on a pedestal, believe me, I don't. It's that I don't understand how doing something ONCE is cool but doing it TWICE is now devolving into schtick or gimmick. That's an awfully quick transition, can't the cycle of enthusiasm for something new be a little bit longer than a couple of weeks? I can be very cynical, but sometimes, it's nice just to be enthusiastic, without letting the cynicsm in and I guess that's where I am with this. It still feels new and different and I'm not ready to start being "What have you done for me lately" about it. It's not my place to speak to the monetary aspects of it but through very easily available info, it's plain that Paul has made very little money on this so far. If you check out PayPal and Google, you can see they change $0.30/per transaction plus a small % of the sale price. With price points of $0.49 and $0.99, taking $0.30+ right off the top is a pretty big chunk. Add to that whatever Tunecore charges, assume maybe 2,000 downloads of "49:00" and maybe 500 for "5:05" (all guesses based on no inside knowledge from me) and if Paul netted anything over $750 (pre-tax) dollars on sales so far, I'd be shocked. Shocked I tell you! So more than anything else, that's why I don't think money is a primary motivator. Why sell it then, rather than give it away? Well, a) everyone likes being paid for their work and b) perhaps it's a trial ballon to see if a full-fledged 'real' album could be released online as a viable alternative to doing it through a label, to try and get an understanding of the metrics and process involved and the type of volume od downloads needed to back it work and all that. Again, these are all guesses on my part. It may have just been a lark. I have no problem with contrarian views, and I don't want to agure this to death but I feel strongly about this. I'm not saying Paul wasn't appreciative of all the buzz that came along with "49:00", I'm sure he was, it got a ton of press and that's never a bad thing. So I hope whatever fallout from it is offset by the general buzz and great reviews.
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Post by kgp on Aug 29, 2008 9:19:29 GMT -5
& At the current prices, nobody should be complaining. Keep 'em coming. You'd think, wouldn't you? I don't have a problem with the price other than the seemingly randomness of it. Personally, I can't keep putting small purchase after small purchase after small purchase on a credit card, assuming this is going to be regular thing with Paul.
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Post by wiser's deluxe on Aug 29, 2008 10:35:22 GMT -5
Complaining is our god-given right, we are America, home of the free and complaining and I'm no exception, I coud complain your ear off about a million things. Just not this. It's not about having him on a pedestal, believe me, I don't. It's that I don't understand how doing something ONCE is cool but doing it TWICE is now devolving into schtick or gimmick. That's an awfully quick transition, can't the cycle of enthusiasm for something new be a little bit longer than a couple of weeks? dunno Kathy, this latest release is so July ... well put.
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Post by Placemat on Aug 29, 2008 11:50:15 GMT -5
Really...really? Would anyone actually be shocked if PW somehow found a way to turn a stunning musical act into shtick? At some point as a PW supporter, you have to acknowledge what you're signing up for. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the basement...so to speak. Viva la legacy! Shocked no, disappointed, yeah. Really. Guess I'm fucked up, cuz I never realized that Westerberg equates with musical shtick. In fact, I've always felt the exact opposite. I like Paul cuz he's honest. Real. No one, Landshark included, has complained about this latest release, man just pointed out a concern.
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Post by Hide N Lurkin' on Aug 29, 2008 14:54:01 GMT -5
The first song on this "release" begins with a snippet of Backlash and then gets into Tell Em All, Go to Hell. There is no doubt this was an intentional jab at "The Man". The ironic thing is that in addition to legal backlash (which is assumed for 49:00), but now the backlash from some of the fans over this one. My take is keep em coming, I would never look a gifthorse in the mouth.
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Post by timtoast on Aug 30, 2008 15:05:58 GMT -5
I will be evacuating my southern Louisiana home within the hour due to Hurricane Gustav. I may not have much computer access where I'm going, so please tell Paul not to release anything new for the next week or so. I'm sure he'll understand.... ;D
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Post by A Regular on Aug 30, 2008 18:04:52 GMT -5
I will be evacuating my southern Louisiana home within the hour due to Hurricane Gustav. I may not have much computer access where I'm going, so please tell Paul not to release anything new for the next week or so. I'm sure he'll understand.... ;D Maybe a version of House of the Rising Sun? And I'm leaning towards landshark and placemat on this one. Its also sneaking toward the line of self-indulgence when people release their doodles with a price tag. In some interview PW talks about "bonus" tracks and states there was a good reason they weren't released in the first place. I don't mind the song sketches as bonus material for it is a bonus/icing on the cake... but not the cake. I would have bought it either way, but felt a little cheated this time around. Wonder what johnny rotten would think.
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