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Post by kgp on Nov 1, 2007 12:29:52 GMT -5
I wasn't really trying to read to deeply into anything, just that in an interview from that tour he said he's not the type to go out and sight-see.
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Post by FreeRider on Nov 1, 2007 12:52:03 GMT -5
oh, okay; I gotcha now. yeah, I dunno; maybe he's done enough of it early on in his career that there isn't much that he wants to see?
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Post by FreeRider on Nov 1, 2007 16:38:30 GMT -5
^^ What the heck? Where did that come from or is that some ultra clever photoshopping jobber? I was running down a list of all the guys, other than Paul, who can rock a pair of bright red pants, thinking that was Paul's head on someone else's body. (Note to pz: photoshop Paul's head on the body of Santa Claus.) kgp, one more pic for you of Paul in his red pants:  |
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Post by hootenanny58 on Nov 3, 2007 12:47:57 GMT -5
I just finished reading AOBTS this morning.
For as long as I've followed the Mats, and for as many stories as I've read or heard, interviews, videos, the old alt.music message board threads, live performances, etc., I appreciate whatever new nuggets I was able to pick up from Jim Walsh's book. Yet for whatever the reason, in my mind, the enigma just keeps getting more enigmatic, which is cool by me.
I think it's for all of us Mats fans to have our own relationship with the band and the music they created. On the one hand, it brings us together. On the other hand, it reinforces our individuality. Everytime a retrospective like this is published is just another occasion to delve into the chaotic mystery of the Replacements. All these words and pictures and years later, and they're still fun.
Hats off to Jim Walsh, though. As he was so much closer than any of us to the band - and especially so in the early days - and the environment through which they came up, he could have opted for the straight narrative ... an attempt to explain and dissect "the only band that mattered." He was smart enough to realize, however, that in the universe of strongly-held opinions on the Mats, he would have fallen short, and got clobbered for his efforts. Better to remain objective, to contribute to the story's unwinding, to supply additional context for the sake of our own memories.
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Post by nowwesayitoutloud on Nov 3, 2007 16:30:09 GMT -5
Hats off to Jim Walsh, though. As he was so much closer than any of us to the band - and especially so in the early days - and the environment through which they came up, he could have opted for the straight narrative ... an attempt to explain and dissect "the only band that mattered." He was smart enough to realize, however, that in the universe of strongly-held opinions on the Mats, he would have fallen short, and got clobbered for his efforts. Better to remain objective, to contribute to the story's unwinding, to supply additional context for the sake of our own memories. I'm starting to see it as a bit of a cop-out. |
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Post by ClamsCasino on Nov 3, 2007 22:00:06 GMT -5
Just finished the book. I'll go along with mildly disappointing, which seems to be the general consensus. Without Paul, Tommy and Chris involved, an oral history doesn't really seem like it was the way to go here. The patchwork quilt of quotes seems a little random at times (or occasionally even borderline unrelated to the Mats). And for a book cobbled together from old (and new) quotes it seems like Walsh missed quite a few of my favorites. In fact, I think there's more missing just a few favorite quotes, namely the humor and heart that we've seen in other articles and interviews. I didn't find much to laugh about in this book, and I've laughed my ass off at plenty of things said by these guys over the years. I was also strangely unmoved by the later Bob chapters and I've been moved to tears by articles written about him in the past. Reprinting that entire heartbreaking Spin article on Bob would've served far better than Walsh transcribing his eulogy. Not that it was a bad eulogy, but it served more to insert Walsh into the narrative than it did to offer an intimate look at Bob. "Objective" is definitely one thing that Walsh isn't here.
I also felt like the music was missing. Sure, everybody talks about what a great songwriter Paul is and what a crazy guitar player Bob was, but there's not much musical context here beyond the expected fan adulation. For just one example, exactly what kind of music did Westerberg's side band, Jefferson's Cock play? This is the sort of stuff that requires an author to fill in the contextual gaps between quotes. I don't know what people who don't already know every Mats song forwards and backwards would make of this book. If I'd read it without ever having heard them, I doubt it would make me want to hear them. And I guess that's about the worst thing I could say about the book.
And just to pile on a little more, I was pretty disappointed with the photo selection. There was stuff I hadn't seen, but nothing very good. Here's a random 1993 shot of Bill Sullivan on a page that doesn't quote him or even mention him. And here's a full page of some graffiti in the bathroom of 7th Street Entry, none of it Mats related. I can see the montage of shirtless Paul's holding an appeal for some readers (they are cool shots that I'd never seen before), but what's up with that shot outside 7th Street with the "Hollywood Premiere" klieg light logo and "25¢ Pop" sign on the opposite page? For comparison's sake, the little booklet insert for All For Nothing had brilliant photographs, most of which I'd never seen before.
And what the hell is Steve Albini's problem? I never knew he had such a bug up his butt about the Mats. Did he start out a fan and then was irked that they didn't keep making Stink? I did like that Slim got in an oblique jab at Albini by slagging off the new Stooges album (I'm with Slim on that one).
Overall, I think the chapter in Our Band Could Be Your Life was much better. I guess we'll have to wait for the book that's promised by Paul in the acknowledgments, or Chris Mars diaries that are mentioned in Our Band...
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Post by nowwesayitoutloud on Nov 4, 2007 1:35:10 GMT -5
I did like that Slim got in an oblique jab at Albini by slagging off the new Stooges album (I'm with Slim on that one). oblique jab at Steve Albini wasn't recalled quite right in Walsh's preface to "All Over but the Shouting" (p. 14): "Because when Steve Albini ripped Tim in Matter magazine, Paul responded in Rolling Stone's year-end issue, naming Albini's band, Big Black, as best of the year, followed by wusses-of-the-day like Julio Iglesias, etc. Ninety percent of Rolling Stone's readers didn't get it, but those of us who did never forgot it." According to The Skyway (and the way I remember it too): "You want to laugh at corporate rock journalism? Try Paul listing Whitney Houston albums and one Steve Albini album as his top ten albums for Rolling Stone." |
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Post by ClamsCasino on Nov 4, 2007 12:09:26 GMT -5
Did Jon Bon Jovi really write a letter to Musician Magazine saying that he'd never heard of the Replacements? I'd have liked to have read that. It seems kind of odd, since Paul had given Bon Jovi a surprising compliment in a PTMM-era interview. I think it's in that video-taped press kit interview that's on Youtube, where Paul says something about Bon Jovi being an example of someone who works in a different genre, but does it well.
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Post by Kathy on Nov 4, 2007 14:58:46 GMT -5
Did Jon Bon Jovi really write a letter to Musician Magazine saying that he'd never heard of the Replacements? I'd have liked to have read that. It seems kind of odd, since Paul had given Bon Jovi a surprising compliment in a PTMM-era interview. I think it's in that video-taped press kit interview that's on Youtube, where Paul says something about Bon Jovi being an example of someone who works in a different genre, but does it well. I'm not sure if that's an urban Mats myth or not, but I have heard that Bon Jovi story before. |
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Post by Placemat on Nov 4, 2007 16:16:20 GMT -5
Did Jon Bon Jovi really write a letter to Musician Magazine saying that he'd never heard of the Replacements? It's true. Musician printed the letter in a following issue (the one after the Mats cover, I think). My memory says Walsh quotes it correctly in the book. |
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Post by longplayer on Nov 4, 2007 21:47:58 GMT -5
Funny, I've always thought of Bon Jovi's music as "Mullet Rock"
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Nov 4, 2007 22:25:41 GMT -5
It took me a while to settle into the format, but in the end I liked the book quite a bit. I do have to disagree on this point. I thought that part was particularly well done. I thought he did a pretty good job describing Bob's life before his death, and by the time I got through the eulogy I had a pretty good lump in my throat.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Nov 5, 2007 1:18:59 GMT -5
I do have to disagree on this point. I thought that part was particularly well done. I thought he did a pretty good job describing Bob's life before his death, and by the time I got through the eulogy I had a pretty good lump in my throat. Well, just for comparison's sake, here's a link to the entire Charles Aaron article from Spin: www.22designs.com/foshaytower2/articles/spin.htmlFor my money, Aaron packs more information, insight and heartbreak into one article than Walsh's entire book. I definitely learned far more about Bob's post-Mats days in that article than I did from "All Over..." |
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cford
Star Scout
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Post by cford on Nov 5, 2007 10:27:37 GMT -5
Did Jon Bon Jovi really write a letter to Musician Magazine saying that he'd never heard of the Replacements? I'd have liked to have read that. It seems kind of odd, since Paul had given Bon Jovi a surprising compliment in a PTMM-era interview. I think it's in that video-taped press kit interview that's on Youtube, where Paul says something about Bon Jovi being an example of someone who works in a different genre, but does it well. Yes..Jon Bob Jovi was quite offended that a band like The Replacements, who he claimed to have never heard of, would get a Musician mag cover and be named "best band of the 80s.".. I guess he thought Bon Jovi deserved that. CF |
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cford
Star Scout
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Post by cford on Nov 5, 2007 10:40:25 GMT -5
Just finished the book. I'll go along with mildly disappointing, which seems to be the general consensus. Without Paul, Tommy and Chris involved, an oral history doesn't really seem like it was the way to go here. The patchwork quilt of quotes seems a little random at times (or occasionally even borderline unrelated to the Mats). And for a book cobbled together from old (and new) quotes it seems like Walsh missed quite a few of my favorites. In fact, I think there's more missing just a few favorite quotes, namely the humor and heart that we've seen in other articles and interviews. I didn't find much to laugh about in this book, and I've laughed my ass off at plenty of things said by these guys over the years. I was also strangely unmoved by the later Bob chapters and I've been moved to tears by articles written about him in the past. Reprinting that entire heartbreaking Spin article on Bob would've served far better than Walsh transcribing his eulogy. Not that it was a bad eulogy, but it served more to insert Walsh into the narrative than it did to offer an intimate look at Bob. "Objective" is definitely one thing that Walsh isn't here. I was of surprised that Walsh used that controversial Carleen Stinson quote in his section on Bob which depicts Paul forcing a recovering Bob to drink..Paul has gone on record as saying that never happened and I tend to believe him. CF |
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timsch
First Class Scout
soothes the savage beast
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Post by timsch on Nov 7, 2007 8:43:34 GMT -5
I actually took that picture of Paul with the baseball bat. He was playing in Louisville and I knew the promoter since childhood so I had a feeling I might meet my idol. He had just been to the Hillerich & Bradsby museum/factory to pick up a Louisville slugger for his son. We talked for a while and when it came time for pictures someone said give us a shot of hitting one out of the park to which in total Westerberg fashion Paul said," How about a bunt".
Paul opened the show solo and was great. The bill also included, Sonic Youth, Patti Smith, John Cale and the Polyphonic Spree.
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Post by FreeRider on Nov 7, 2007 14:30:10 GMT -5
Ahh, very cool! Thanks for the backstory. I found your pic over on the Skyway site.
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Post by Stegman on Nov 8, 2007 12:11:39 GMT -5
Just finished the book. I'll go along with mildly disappointing, which seems to be the general consensus. Without Paul, Tommy and Chris involved, an oral history doesn't really seem like it was the way to go here. The patchwork quilt of quotes seems a little random at times (or occasionally even borderline unrelated to the Mats). And for a book cobbled together from old (and new) quotes it seems like Walsh missed quite a few of my favorites. In fact, I think there's more missing just a few favorite quotes, namely the humor and heart that we've seen in other articles and interviews. I didn't find much to laugh about in this book, and I've laughed my ass off at plenty of things said by these guys over the years. I was also strangely unmoved by the later Bob chapters and I've been moved to tears by articles written about him in the past. Reprinting that entire heartbreaking Spin article on Bob would've served far better than Walsh transcribing his eulogy. Not that it was a bad eulogy, but it served more to insert Walsh into the narrative than it did to offer an intimate look at Bob. "Objective" is definitely one thing that Walsh isn't here. I also felt like the music was missing. Sure, everybody talks about what a great songwriter Paul is and what a crazy guitar player Bob was, but there's not much musical context here beyond the expected fan adulation. For just one example, exactly what kind of music did Westerberg's side band, Jefferson's Cock play? This is the sort of stuff that requires an author to fill in the contextual gaps between quotes. I don't know what people who don't already know every Mats song forwards and backwards would make of this book. If I'd read it without ever having heard them, I doubt it would make me want to hear them. And I guess that's about the worst thing I could say about the book. And just to pile on a little more, I was pretty disappointed with the photo selection. There was stuff I hadn't seen, but nothing very good. Here's a random 1993 shot of Bill Sullivan on a page that doesn't quote him or even mention him. And here's a full page of some graffiti in the bathroom of 7th Street Entry, none of it Mats related. I can see the montage of shirtless Paul's holding an appeal for some readers (they are cool shots that I'd never seen before), but what's up with that shot outside 7th Street with the "Hollywood Premiere" klieg light logo and "25¢ Pop" sign on the opposite page? For comparison's sake, the little booklet insert for All For Nothing had brilliant photographs, most of which I'd never seen before. And what the hell is Steve Albini's problem? I never knew he had such a bug up his butt about the Mats. Did he start out a fan and then was irked that they didn't keep making Stink? I did like that Slim got in an oblique jab at Albini by slagging off the new Stooges album (I'm with Slim on that one). Overall, I think the chapter in Our Band Could Be Your Life was much better. I guess we'll have to wait for the book that's promised by Paul in the acknowledgments, or Chris Mars diaries that are mentioned in Our Band... Albini's a tool. I was at some half-baked AAN journalism conference at Northwestern back in 1997 or so and attended some hideous seminar he put on. Bored me to tears, but it was clear he had a very high opinion of himself. I want to know more about Jefferson's Cock [the band]. Who was in it with PW? When were they around [I'm guessing early to mid-80s]? Are there any bootlegs out there? |
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Post by nowwesayitoutloud on Nov 9, 2007 23:48:22 GMT -5
The MPLS Star Tribune has a good-sized excerpt and this review of Walsh's book: 'Mats book is worth shouting about Jim Walsh's oral history is uniquely, proudly localized. By Chris Riemenschneider, Star Tribune Last update: November 09, 2007 – 5:23 PM As appropriate as the surviving Replacements' continued refusal to reunite on stage, St. Paul-based Voyageur Press deserved to publish the first-of-its-kind tome on the world's most inappropriate rock legends instead of some big New York publishing company. Not that the 'Mats ever sold enough to have the big New York publishers frothing at the mouth. "All Over But the Shouting: An Oral History" is uniquely, proudly the story of the Minneapolis band from the vantage point of the Minneapolis scene, and not much else. It lacks many of the sordid road stories and troubled music-biz tales dutifully recounted in Michael Azerrad's great '80s indie-rock collage "Our Band Could Be Your Life." But that almost seems the point. Most of the people quoted in this 267-page book weren't hanging around backstage when the Mats stumbled onto "Saturday Night Live" or signed with Warner Bros. They were hanging around the block long before all that. These are 7th Street Entry stories, not Fifth Avenue. Like the one about guitarist Bob Stinson climbing into a garbage can at the Entry and stumbling out of it in his birthday suit. Walsh, the former Pioneer Press and City Pages writer who's now an online columnist and singer/songwriter, remains one of the best-liked figures in the Twin Cities music scene. (Full disclosure: I consider him a friend, too.) Being popular can be antithetical to being a critic, and it causes some problems here. Walsh spends too much of the book quoting his friends and family members. (One begins, "I never met Paul Westerberg, but. ... ") Walsh's likability got him in with the Mats in the first place, though -- an invaluable asset for writing about a band that oozed mistrust. Aside from a bit contributed by drummer Chris Mars, the band members did not participate in this book. Neither did two other eye-of-the-storm sources, road-crew guys Bill Sullivan and Bill Carton. Too bad, but oh, well. In their place, Walsh includes a stockpile of good quotes from past interviews with the band. Their datedness might even be an asset -- less cynical and maybe more accurate. He also had his own gold mine of memories, including a firsthand account of their first gig. The best parts, though, are assorted new insights from other principal players including Peter Jesperson, the band's original manager, and Slim Dunlap, Stinson's replacement, whose levelheadedness made him an unlikely Replacement but is a winning trait here. With their help, the book turned out just as Walsh described Stinson in his eulogy of the guitarist: Funny, intense, sad and joyful. Chris Riemenschneider • 612-673-4658 Chris Riemenschneider • chrisr@startribune.com get it? "He also had his own gold mine of memories, including a firsthand account of their first gig." |
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Post by Tarzan on Nov 10, 2007 1:34:39 GMT -5
cford wrote: "I was of surprised that Walsh used that controversial Carleen Stinson quote in his section on Bob which depicts Paul forcing a recovering Bob to drink..Paul has gone on record as saying that never happened and I tend to believe him."
PW would never tell a lie? Hmmmmm . . . I got a hunch Carleen was telling the truth. My hat's off to Walsh for using that quote. Also, my hat's off to PW for attending Bob's funeral. Mick and Keith could not be bothered to show up for Brian Jones' burial.
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