|
Post by Kathy on Oct 8, 2007 18:12:49 GMT -5
I can't remember what memorable albums came out in 1991, but I thought it interesting that their thoughts were "I Will Dare" would have ranked pretty high. That it was a song ahead of its time. I sort of thought around that time it was very grungy and all. A song like that, would it have survived? Would it have done well? Just asking for sake of discussion. It seemed as if the music was changing around that time and a song like "I Will Dare" might have been out of place, once again. To my ears, "I Will Dare" sounds way too pop to have had a place on the charts in 1991. The song is just too damn good to ever have had a place at the top of the mainstream charts, no matter the year.
|
|
|
Post by FreeRider on Oct 8, 2007 19:50:22 GMT -5
Yeah, you're probably right...but it's not your typical schlocky pop that we know of today; it's a great tune with some measure of intelligence in it and it reflects the kind of pop music I heard growing up in the early 70's---Elton John, Linda Rondstadt, Carly Simon, etc.
Still, if I heard it right, I thought it was curious that Jim and the other dj's were saying that the song would have charted had it been released 8 years later.
|
|
|
Post by Kathy on Oct 8, 2007 21:12:52 GMT -5
Yeah, you're probably right...but it's not your typical schlocky pop that we know of today; it's a great tune with some measure of intelligence in it and it reflects the kind of pop music I heard growing up in the early 70's---Elton John, Linda Rondstadt, Carly Simon, etc. Yeah I meant "pop" in the good sense, the Mats weren't a power pop band by any means but because Paul is so heavily influenced by the great pop music of the 70s, the essence of that is there in a lot of the great Mats/PW songs.
|
|
Dave74
Second Class Scout
Posts: 30
|
Post by Dave74 on Oct 9, 2007 11:06:02 GMT -5
To reduce '91 to "grunge" is off by about a year (Pearl Jam and Nirvana broke, but the charts didn't really follow until '92), but even sort of overly reductive for the immediately post-Nirvana era (I'd say DeRogatis would have been safer with '92-'95).
Nirvana and their ilk made radio a little more likely to take chances for a while, and it wasn't just on the Seattle bands and those that ham-fistedly ripped them off (Bush, Collective Soul, etc.). Aside from R.E.M. getting even more play than they previously had, Soul Asylum, Weezer, Sugar, the Lemonheads, and other bands on the poppy, accessible side of the college rock thing started popping up in the radio during this time. "Alex Chilton" and "I'll Be You" even got some play on the local "alternative" station from time-to-time.
"I Will Dare" may be smarter than a lot of the indie (or indie-gone-major) pop songs from this era, but it's certainly just as catchy, and that's a lot more relevant than smarts when it comes to radio play.
|
|
|
Post by FreeRider on Oct 9, 2007 11:50:25 GMT -5
Yeah, you're probably right...but it's not your typical schlocky pop that we know of today; it's a great tune with some measure of intelligence in it and it reflects the kind of pop music I heard growing up in the early 70's---Elton John, Linda Rondstadt, Carly Simon, etc. Yeah I meant "pop" in the good sense, the Mats weren't a power pop band by any means but because Paul is so heavily influenced by the great pop music of the 70s, the essence of that is there in a lot of the great Mats/PW songs. Oh, I got you---I knew what you had meant. I was just trying to make a statement differentiating between the pop music that was actually good versus the stuff today that passes itself off as pop music. Granted, the 70's pop music still had its share of schlock. Anyone remember Mac Davis? Or the goofiness of Sonny and Cher? And all those variety shows?
|
|
|
Post by FreeRider on Oct 9, 2007 12:01:28 GMT -5
To reduce '91 to "grunge" is off by about a year (Pearl Jam and Nirvana broke, but the charts didn't really follow until '92), but even sort of overly reductive for the immediately post-Nirvana era (I'd say DeRogatis would have been safer with '92-'95).... Hey, thanks for the timeline. I really don't remember when things changed from that classic album oriented rock to something different. I'm being serious when I say that I really don't listen to rock radio anymore and haven't since the late 80's when the progressive radio stations started to get gobbled up by the big corporations (ie, Clear Channel and Infinity Broadcasting) and the formats changed. No more free format radio, where a dj could actually turn you on to something cool. I have no clue as to what's out there, who's supposedly the flavor of the month, other than what I read. I do, on occasion, listen to some classic rock stations when I'm in the car between swapping out CD's to play. It's either news radio for the traffic reports or some classical music to calm my nerves on crappy commutes in/out of the city. And you're right---if you don't have a catchy song, it doesn't matter how intelligent or witty the song is. Radio won't play it. The irony is, I thought Paul had catchy songs all the time and they still didn't give him the kind of airplay I thought he would get.
|
|
|
Post by nowwesayitoutloud on Oct 9, 2007 14:25:38 GMT -5
Anyone remember Mac Davis? Or the goofiness of Sonny and Cher? And all those variety shows? The Paul Lynde Halloween Special from 1976 has just been released on DVD. It features the first network TV performance by KISS. They do "Beth," "Detroit Rock City"and "King of The Night Time World".
|
|
|
Post by FreeRider on Oct 9, 2007 16:09:30 GMT -5
Anyone remember Mac Davis? Or the goofiness of Sonny and Cher? And all those variety shows? The Paul Lynde Halloween Special from 1976 has just been released on DVD. It features the first network TV performance by KISS. They do "Beth," "Detroit Rock City"and "King of The Night Time World". I grew up in the 70's; was everybody high back then? The thought that a TV network would give Paul Lynde a TV special seems rather nutty today. And that they had KISS on there is rather weird too. Like having David Bowie and Bing Crosby together, singing a duet. Did someone spike the water cooler with LSD? ;D
|
|
|
Post by Kathy on Oct 16, 2007 20:18:23 GMT -5
A nice little surprise arrived at my front door this afternoon - a comp of the book! Besides looking for my name in the acknowledgments (which felt a bit like Steve Martin in The Jerk), I paged through it and read a few quotes. I have to say it looks great, and features some fantastic pics. I got a review copy today, I've flipped through and the pictures are great. He's got Paul's 8th grade school picture in there and oh my, it's adorable. The Westerbergian hair was already going strong at age 13!
|
|
timsch
First Class Scout
soothes the savage beast
Posts: 190
|
Post by timsch on Oct 17, 2007 9:07:29 GMT -5
[/quote]
I grew up in the 70's; was everybody high back then? ;D [/quote]
Yes, we were.
|
|
|
Post by Kathy on Oct 17, 2007 12:44:14 GMT -5
The Paul Lynde Halloween Special from 1976 has just been released on DVD. It features the first network TV performance by KISS. They do "Beth," "Detroit Rock City"and "King of The Night Time World". I grew up in the 70's; was everybody high back then? The thought that a TV network would give Paul Lynde a TV special seems rather nutty today. And that they had KISS on there is rather weird too. Like having David Bowie and Bing Crosby together, singing a duet. Did someone spike the water cooler with LSD? ;D Oh my god, that Paul Lynde special sounds incredible. And I third that emotion - everyone had at least a contact high in the 70s. How else to explain:
|
|
|
Post by kgp on Oct 17, 2007 12:44:44 GMT -5
To reduce '91 to "grunge" is off by about a year (Pearl Jam and Nirvana broke, but the charts didn't really follow until '92), but even sort of overly reductive for the immediately post-Nirvana era (I'd say DeRogatis would have been safer with '92-'95). Nirvana and their ilk made radio a little more likely to take chances for a while, and it wasn't just on the Seattle bands and those that ham-fistedly ripped them off (Bush, Collective Soul, etc.). Aside from R.E.M. getting even more play than they previously had, Soul Asylum, Weezer, Sugar, the Lemonheads, and other bands on the poppy, accessible side of the college rock thing started popping up in the radio during this time. "Alex Chilton" and "I'll Be You" even got some play on the local "alternative" station from time-to-time. "I Will Dare" may be smarter than a lot of the indie (or indie-gone-major) pop songs from this era, but it's certainly just as catchy, and that's a lot more relevant than smarts when it comes to radio play. That's about right. Def Leppard (pz!) still had an album on the charts in 92, and Red Hot Chili Peppers were still considered cutting edge rock. What's funny is I remember hearing Pearl Jam and STP on the "rawk!" radio station in 92, and no one acted like it was a watershed event in music history. Alice is Chains was flat-out metal, they just used less hairspray.
|
|
markc
Dances With Posts
Posts: 82
|
Post by markc on Oct 18, 2007 1:33:55 GMT -5
I just ordered my copy - woo hoo! I ordered from the US site, as Amazon in Canada doesn't release it until late November (for a higher price to boot - us Canadians always get screwed)
|
|
|
Post by ussinners on Oct 18, 2007 7:39:58 GMT -5
I bought this book Sunday and I'm not particularly thrilled with it. It's a book of quotes, and memories from people who were probably wasted at the time. It's not filled with photos, but reproductions of flyers from when the Mats played clubs back in the day.
I'm sure many of you will love the book, but I was just hoping for more.
|
|
|
Post by Kathy on Oct 18, 2007 9:43:42 GMT -5
It's a book of quotes, and memories from people who were probably wasted at the time. To be fair, it's billed as an "Oral history" which is as you described, "memories from people". Whether it's an ejoyable oral history or not is a matter of opinion. But slamming it because of the format isn't a fair criticism.
|
|
gage
First Class Scout
Posts: 168
|
Post by gage on Oct 18, 2007 10:55:51 GMT -5
I love oral histories. "Please Kill Me" anyone?
|
|
|
Post by hudson99 on Oct 18, 2007 17:48:55 GMT -5
I love oral histories. "Please Kill Me" anyone? Quoted for Truth!
|
|
|
Post by ussinners on Oct 19, 2007 13:11:02 GMT -5
[/quote]
To be fair, it's billed as an "Oral history" which is as you described, "memories from people". Whether it's an ejoyable oral history or not is a matter of opinion. But slamming it because of the format isn't a fair criticism.
[/quote]
Having read parts of it, I find it boring, but that's just my opinion. Having never seen a book on the Mats, I just expected more. Again only my opinion. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
|
|
|
Post by Kathy on Oct 19, 2007 13:33:47 GMT -5
Having read parts of it, I find it boring, but that's just my opinion. Having never seen a book on the Mats, I just expected more. Again only my opinion. I didn't mean to offend anyone. My only point was that your criticism of the book's format as a bunch of memories from people wasn't a fair one because that's exactly what an oral history is supposed to be. Content-wise, whether it's boring or not is opinion and I don't take any offense to you finding it boring (Jim Walsh might though!). I'm up to the part where Bob is fired from the band and Peter Jesperson is fired as the manager. It's all rather ugly and sad. There's a lot of exuberance and joy in the part about the early days, which is in marked contrast to where things are headed. It's a bit tricky to have Peter and Slim commenting on the situation now, and not have that corresponding commentary from Paul, Tommy and Chris, because you're not getting all sides of what is a very complicated story.
|
|
|
Post by nowwesayitoutloud on Oct 19, 2007 13:55:24 GMT -5
Having read parts of it, I find it boring, but that's just my opinion. Having never seen a book on the Mats, I just expected more. Again only my opinion. I didn't mean to offend anyone. My only point was that your criticism of the book's format as a bunch of memories from people wasn't a fair one because that's exactly what an oral history is supposed to be. Content-wise, whether it's boring or not is opinion and I don't take any offense to you finding it boring (Jim Walsh might though!). When I heard about the book, I suspected there might be something inevitably disappointing about the format, at least to people who want an author or narrator to tell the story, or who worship Jim Walsh as a writer, not an expert compiler. That said, one of the most-valued Dylan books is the oral history by Clinton Heylin which I believe follows a format very similar to Walsh's. The flip side of Walsh's editor's comment that Walsh was "doomed to write" this book by virtue of his close connection with the band is that it may take a writer with greater distance to produce a long-form version of the Goldmine article or Azerrad's chapter on the Mats.
|
|