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Post by twicks on Oct 19, 2007 15:22:02 GMT -5
When the "Don't You Know Who I Think I Was?" Best Of came out a while back, I thought it was lame of Paul and Tommy to not include Slim on the new recordings.
After reading this book, it's clear that Slim had a really hard time being in the Replacements. He talks about having "post-traumatic stress disorder" from his days in the band. You can practically sense the discomfort in his quotes...
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Post by hudson99 on Oct 19, 2007 17:56:31 GMT -5
I finished my copy today, and I have to say I loved it. There were plenty of times that I had to even wipe a tear away.
Sure, there are certain segments that I wish would have been expanded, such as a bit of chatter around the recording sessions with Alex Chilton (although the story of a party at Jesperson's home where Paul, Chilton and Freedy Johnston jammed on acoustic guitars blew my mind). Or even more on the PTTM recording. But overall, I feel that Walsh did an admirable job.
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Lee
Star Scout
"don't praise the machine."
Posts: 654
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Post by Lee on Oct 20, 2007 13:08:45 GMT -5
After reading this book, it's clear that Slim had a really hard time being in the Replacements. He talks about having "post-traumatic stress disorder" from his days in the band. You can practically sense the discomfort in his quotes... at the same time, i don't think he ever really fit there, did he? i mean, the other day, i was listening to the replacements section of the ipod, and those later tracks with slim felt SO overblown. i think it was primarily because he (at least based on the stuff he played on those records) seems like a sort of showy guitar player, especially compared with the bluesiness/rockandroll of paul, or bob's slightly off-kilter (but nonetheless emotional and beautiful) playing style. there were times when it was like, "another solo?! does this song really need one?!" i hate it when bands or musicians just put in a solo. it feels forced, and we both know it, i think. i mean, i know it's fun to play guitar solos, but maybe some of them should be left in the rehearsal space or onstage. it felt like i was listening to def leppard or something... those supposedly big rock/"epic" guitar solos and stuff... i dunno, i don't really like guitar solos anyway, so i am very picky about them. i did appreciate bob's, though, because he had such a distinctive, noisy and expressive style, as compared to what seem to me to be some typical, tired rock star moves by slim. edit: i suppose the point i'm trying to make is that i think that bob's leads and guitar playing fit the songs and the attitude of the band much more than slim's did, and that's why i appreciate them more. ahem. sorry for the rant. i've been thinking about this since the other day.
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Post by hudson99 on Oct 20, 2007 14:04:49 GMT -5
I think you're overestimating Slim's input into those last two albums...particularly All Shook Down. Paul (and/or the label) made the decision to go with bigger production, and I'm sure the inclusion of clean, traditional solos was made by the producer, engineer, mixer...and Paul.
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Post by hudson99 on Oct 20, 2007 14:06:07 GMT -5
Incidently, I also was moved by the quotes from Slim and his daughters discussing the mixed emotions of their dad joining their favorite band.
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Lee
Star Scout
"don't praise the machine."
Posts: 654
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Post by Lee on Oct 20, 2007 16:47:53 GMT -5
I think you're overestimating Slim's input into those last two albums...particularly All Shook Down. Paul (and/or the label) made the decision to go with bigger production, and I'm sure the inclusion of clean, traditional solos was made by the producer, engineer, mixer...and Paul. that's possible, i guess i just made that connection because pleased to meet me--which is kind of the "scientific control" album to me (no bob or slim)--didn't really have those kinds of things so much, and then once slim joined, they seemed to crop up.
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Post by kgp on Oct 21, 2007 9:25:09 GMT -5
When the "Don't You Know Who I Think I Was?" Best Of came out a while back, I thought it was lame of Paul and Tommy to not include Slim on the new recordings. After reading this book, it's clear that Slim had a really hard time being in the Replacements. He talks about having "post-traumatic stress disorder" from his days in the band. You can practically sense the discomfort in his quotes... I just got the book yesterday, and have read most of it already. (I'm giving a proper re-read, as I scanned most of Paul and Tommy's quotes which came from magazine articles I'd seen already.) I like Slim's contributions, too. I find him, I don't know...more honest? Not the others weren't but he brings a unique point-of-view. Someone who was "in the band," but not really. The early stuff was nice to have. Paul rarely talks about his childhood. (My theory is that there's not much to tell -- just a normal, kind of dorky kid, which apparently was the case. And that's fine. If you're going into it looking for "dirt" you're not going to find any.) I'm not disappointed in the format, but as someone who'd read most of the articles from which a lot of the book was taken, I'd recommend it for a casual Replacements fan (do any exist?) or someone just getting into the band, rather than a "lifer."
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Post by nowwesayitoutloud on Oct 21, 2007 15:40:26 GMT -5
Might have posted this before, but I just can't see one cover without thinking of the other ... ... though Voyageur spared us the rock n roll teeth
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Post by mrblasty on Oct 21, 2007 18:00:58 GMT -5
I haven't gotten my copy yet, so please don't tell me how it ends.
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Post by pz on Oct 21, 2007 18:05:14 GMT -5
;D ;D
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Post by pz on Oct 21, 2007 18:05:45 GMT -5
Darth Vader is Paul's father.
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Post by mrblasty on Oct 21, 2007 18:08:38 GMT -5
Darth Vader is Paul's father. ...and Laurie Lindeen is Paul's sister? Wow! Didn't see that coming!
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cford
Star Scout
Posts: 803
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Post by cford on Oct 23, 2007 9:00:31 GMT -5
I bought this book Sunday and I'm not particularly thrilled with it. It's a book of quotes, and memories from people who were probably wasted at the time. It's not filled with photos, but reproductions of flyers from when the Mats played clubs back in the day. I'm sure many of you will love the book, but I was just hoping for more. I'm with you.. I was not expecting it to contain only quotes and previously published items. Some of the stuff could be fabricated and we would never know. I'm about half way into it...maybe it will get better. CF
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Post by Kathy on Oct 23, 2007 11:13:52 GMT -5
I bought this book Sunday and I'm not particularly thrilled with it. It's a book of quotes, and memories from people who were probably wasted at the time. It's not filled with photos, but reproductions of flyers from when the Mats played clubs back in the day. I'm sure many of you will love the book, but I was just hoping for more. I'm with you.. I was not expecting it to contain only quotes and previously published items. Some of the stuff could be fabricated and we would never know. I'm about half way into it...maybe it will get better. CF It won't get better in the sense that the format remains consistent throughout the book - it's an oral history, so that's all it contains, quotes, both old and new. I'm a fan of the format, "Please Kill Me" is the apex of the format, for rock anyway. ("World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie Wars" is the best oral history, ever, despite being 100% fictional). My only issue with the way it's executed here is putting current quotes alongside old quotes when talking about the same situation. When you have Slim or Peter talking now, with the benefit of 20 years of hindsight and perspective, next to quotes from Paul or Tommy that are contemporary to the time period they happened, it's a bit skewed. But I don't see any way around that since Paul, Tommy and Chris didn't chose to be interviewed for the book.
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randolph500
Star Scout
round the corner give it some gas
Posts: 758
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Post by randolph500 on Oct 23, 2007 11:49:32 GMT -5
harpmagazine.com/reviews/book_reviews/detail.cfm?article_id=6290The Replacements: All Over but the Shouting by Jim Walsh Voyageur Press I recognized something of myself in him. This night, though, we may have never been more alike...” That’s Jim Walsh on Paul Westerberg in the preface to his oral history of Minneapolis’ most glorious drunk-rockers. Fast forwarding to the present, he adds, “We’re both healthy and fucked up but plugging along, just like everyone who came up on the ’Mats, I suppose...” The author’s overidentification with one of rock’s most famous anti-heroes is a troubling but understandable aspect of this otherwise right-on tale of life in the eye of the rock ’n’ roll shit storm. Walsh was in a band of his own (REMs) during Minneapolis’ illustrious early-’80s heyday, which accounts for the close-but-no-cigar perspective. But it is his reporter’s sense and upclose view that is essential to this story: He knows where the bodies are buried, and his interviews with the right scenesters make up the meat of his part memoir/part rock ’n’ roll testament to pre-“alternative” culture. The Replacements’ tumult-fueled story emerges through the vivid recollections of fanzine writers, college radio DJs, record store employees, club bookers, partiers and musicians who transmit the undeniable importance of Minneapolis in the ’80s, along with the passion and sweetness of their youth. Though Westerberg and bassist Tommy Stinson declined to be interviewed and drummer Chris Mars only appears briefly, late guitarist Bob Stinson lives in these tales (and his replacements Slim Dunlap and Steve Foley add their own firsthand color). The band’s carefully edited quotes underscore the idea that this story took place in a time when computers were for geeks and rock ’n’ roll was still do or die. All Over but the Shouting is a very necessary document of a time when you could still tell something about a person by their shoes—or by the ultimate test: whether or not they liked the Replacements. By Denise Sullivan
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randolph500
Star Scout
round the corner give it some gas
Posts: 758
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Post by randolph500 on Oct 23, 2007 11:52:19 GMT -5
harpmagazine.com/reviews/book_reviews/detail.cfm?article_id=6299Replacements Biographer Jim Walsh: Answering Machine HARP: When the band started breaking, how did Minneapolis react? Minneapolis is a tough town. But [the people] love authenticity and weirdness: the ’Mats. And frankly, there had never been a buzz band du jour like them before. When they were in town, you could feel it. You never knew what was going to happen: They might play a surprise gig or pull some stunt that would be on the street the next morning. When they left town to go on tour, the whole town exhaled and rested. HARP: In January of ’85 the ’Mats came to my town, and I was given the task of babysitting Bob Stinson so he didn’t get too fucked up or miss the gig… One night at [Minneapolis club] Entry, Bob kept playing after the entire band had left the stage. I was standing in front of him, wondering if I should tap him on the shoulder and help him off stage, which someone eventually did, but he was lost in his guitar. It was sort of sad at the time, but now that’s a beautiful memory, actually. HARP: For some fans, the band was never the same after Bob got fired. For me, the band was more about the songs than anything else, and Paul obviously still had a lot of gas in his creative tank after Bob was booted. I understand why people loved Bob and felt betrayed, but it’s silly to say that was the end of the band. Robert Christgau said it best: “Fuck art, you would have kicked Bob Stinson out of your band, too.” HARP: What makes the ’Mats timeless? What’s their greatest achievement? They were real. Music that goes straight to your heart is based on trust, and we trusted them. We trusted that they weren’t in it for anything other than communicating how it felt to be alive. They were Dadaists, without the pretense. Their greatest achievement may be that they’re a myth. We live in a time when everything is so easily accessible and therefore not as personal. You can’t go see the Replacements, but you can listen to their records and feel part of something bigger than yourself or that band. HARP: What was the hardest part about doing your book? Once Paul told me he didn’t want to be part of it because of our friendship, it freed me up. He was smart that way; he knew that, left to my own devices, I’d be free to tell the tale without bugging him about factoids, truths, lies, etc., which would have been soul-numbing for both of us. The hardest part was reliving Bob’s ouster and death. But even with that, I got to know him so much better. HARP: Current odds for a Replacements reunion?
Even.By Fred Mills
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Post by Placemat on Oct 23, 2007 21:50:22 GMT -5
Just finished & still digesting, but the part that sticks out:
Jesperson (regarding the Mats last gig): ...It ended with Tommy front & center, playing guitar & shouting things like "You were robbed!"
classic. ;D
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gage
First Class Scout
Posts: 168
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Post by gage on Oct 23, 2007 23:04:44 GMT -5
The book was waiting for me when I got to work, just finished it. The foreword starts off a bit iffy. But as soon as we got into the rest of the book it was a quick read. Didn't find out too much I didn't already know. Loved the Grant Hart/Paul/Mould bitchiness at the Karl thing. But I'm just fascinated by the longevity of the Hart/Mould feud. It's kind of cute. I doubt we'll ever get it, and it's a bit sick anyway, but I'm looking for a "Up and Down With the Rolling Stones" type Replacements book. I bet the Replacements(especially Bob, from these accounts) loved "Up and Down...".
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gage
First Class Scout
Posts: 168
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Post by gage on Oct 23, 2007 23:43:59 GMT -5
And on a different note...I remember thinking they weren't the same after Bob got fired. I went to see them at the Coronado in Rockford IL. I think it was the DTAS tour. Eh. It was interesting they all kind of felt that way. Slim addressed it best. They seemed to be more of an "act" than a Band without Bob. I still listened to DTAS and All Shoook Down over and over. I just didn't care about the live show anymore.
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Post by erics on Oct 24, 2007 9:21:42 GMT -5
I've read about half of it and it's an engrossing, quick read.
I do wish there more nuggets about Chris. I loved the bit about Chris getting arrested and swearing at the cops. You don't often hear about Chris's antics and contribution to the debauchery that was the Replacements. And regardless of what Paul says, this guy rocks on the drums.
I think the oral history format works well for the band. Their legend is all about the stories left in their wake. Each person's recollections may fade over time and become replaced with embellished anecdotes, but the nuts and bolts of what they're saying rings true.
The comments from Paul Stark and Peter Jesperson are particularly useful and insightful. Their detailed accounts of what happened are priceless. They were in the inner circle from the very beginning. It wouldn't be much of a book without them.
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