Guitar talk

[Squaw]

I would never attempt such a feat but cheers to you for at least considering it. Beginning with Boring Enormous would start a coffee house bunch out properly, then Skyway and Here Comes A Regular. You would have to throw Dangerous Boys and Love Untold in there somewhere as well. I'm biased, but I think after that, you could do no wrong! Oh, at least one from Dead Man Shake. Do No Right In Your Eyes sounds good!

[FreeRider]

Squaw,

why wouldn't you take a stab at an open mic? stage fright? join the club! I've performed before an audience but always with other people and that was quite some time ago. I kinda psych myself out and get too self conscious for an open mic nite thing because I'm aware I'd be the ONLY one up there unless I had some others to sing/play with me.

thanks for those suggestions. Interesting picks. Boring Enormous is certainly doable, and I could prolly play that in standard tuning. And I like Dangerous Boys as a choice too, I think the lyrics would definitely catch people's ears. That one is definitely in an open tuning and I'm not quite sure how to play it, but it follows a typical blues pattern.

Skyway would be a good choice, as it tells a pretty wistful story and is certainly playable, no open tunings for that one.

[Jer]

Coffee house gigs are misleading. On one hand, they're usually not big crowds and there's usually not any money involved, so it might appear low stress, but then you get up there and you realize the people there are staring at you and listening to what you're playing and singing. It's polar opposite of opening for a band at a rock club solo-acoustic, where you might be playing to 10x the people, but 99% of them are talking to each other (which they can't do when the bands are playing) and getting drunk. There might be a lot more people in the room but unless they crank you in the PA, which they usually won't, you're working hard for very little reward and essentially playing to the few ears paying attention.

Skyway, though not in open tuning, does require the capo if you want to be true to the record. In the end I would guess that most of Paul's songs from LIB on were written on an acoustic guitar so even some of the faster stuff could translate well - and possibly provide for a more interesting interpretation than a straight cover.

[FreeRider]

Oh yeah....that's what I've seen before, the patrons are right up close to you. I had stopped into the coffee joint just to look at the place and see where they might set up. It wasn't a huge coffee house, and I'm kind of wondering if I got unconsciously got sloppy at happy hour on purpose as a way to sabotage myself.

The only thing that I think gets me over the stage fright is the knowledge that Paul's songs are great and I'd enjoy playing them and exposing people to those songs. And having been to a few acoustic open mic nites before, I hate to say it, but the talent level isn't that great. A few are pretty damn good, but for the most part, the songs are kind of mehhhhh, or the skill level is very rudimentary....but hey, I give those folks credit. They got up and did it while I just sat there on the sidelines with my waxed up hair and my painted shoes, you know?

it's still a challenge, something I want to overcome.

[Jer]

Best advice I ever got about stage fright is something along the lines that nervousness/stage fright is the exact same emotion/chemical reaction in the brain as excitement. It's the situational response we attach to it that makes us sweat and shake and so anxious. So the way you feel just before your favorite band takes the stage and you haven't seen them in years might be the same way you feel right before you walk out there with your guitar, but you've unknowingly tricked yourself into being scared shitless about the latter. I don't know the background of that theory, and I don't really suffer from stage fright anymore, but I have passed that along to people who have told me it helped. In the end, the best thing is to just make yourself do it. It gets easier every time. Kinda like jumping off a tall cliff into a deep lake - terrifying the first time, but after the second or 3rd time it's just a blast.

[FreeRider]

Jer,

interesting! thanks for sharing that with us. but you're right---the challenge is to overcome the mental hurdle and just do it, just play one. and then force my self to do another one. I mean, I'm confident in the song, I'm confident in my ability---it's just the jitters and the self consciousness. I suppose it's easier for folks who like attention and love to be the center of every social event, but I'm not one of them. Again, it's easier when you're with a group than it is just being up there by yourself.

Have you done a solo open mic night thing? How was your first time if you've done one?

[Jer]

I've only done 1 open mic night in the last 20+ years I think, and that was just a couple years back and just because a buddy of mine was opening for me at the same place that weekend and it was his first gig in forever and he wanted to have a little warm up - so I said, 'what the hell I'll do a couple too.' So I don't think it really qualifies as a 'yes' to your question.

BUT - I have done dozens of solo-acoustic shows. The band I was in at the time broke up in late `08 so I spent a good chunk of `09 recording a solo record and all of `10 touring behind it - alone/acoustic. Every possible scenario from opening for cool bands in packed rock bars to playing for 2 people reading books in a coffee house and every thing in between.

Getting into the solo-acoustic thing was a little awkward at first but like I said, you find your groove after a couple shows and start to figure out what's working, what's not, how to keep people's attention, all that. It just comes down to doing it - you can be well rehearsed and have the perfect beer-buzz curve and all that, but the first time will never be perfect. The only way to get comfortable is to trudge through those first couple times and keep at it as often as you can. Open mic nights are perfect for that. Especially if you do it spontaneously, then you won't obsess about it for days! Eventually you get to that auto-pilot mode where you can just concentrate on the moment and not worry about the chords and the words. That's when it's all worth it.

[FreeRider]

ahhh, very cool! And good suggestions---I think I psych myself out when i think about it too much rather than just going out to the place on the spur of the moment to sign up. Like you said, I wind up obsessing about it in the manner of, "Should I do it this Saturday night? Should I go down and sign up? What songs should I do?"

I think that takes the fun out of performing an original tune or just a cover tune...and ironically, the only thing to do to enjoy it, is to do exactly what you suggest: do it on the spur of the moment! No thinking, no obsessing, just go down and sign up and have fun. Thanks for the insights....

[anarkissed]

One thing I came to understand about any public performance is that the person performing is always going to be much more aware of all the little miscues and gaffes and technical problems that might arise, while the audience may not notice these at all...I discovered this somewhat when I might have people compliment me on a performance that I thought wasn't so good, but even more when I might be complimenting someone else, only to have them tell me everything that was wrong with what they just did...I think that's another good tip: if someone comes up to you afterwards to tell how much they liked your show, don't kill their buzz by pointing out what you didn't like about it...Just say thanks...

[glgbill]

Good conversation! I've done a little open mic, song circle, jam stuff through the years - nothing like Jer above, but some. We're all different, of course, but something that helped me was to find a place inside where I'm just singing it for me. Obviously, I'm playing for others or I wouldn't be in those settings, but even in the middle of everyone, I'm still doing it for me.

Whether I'm great (okay, passable ) or I blow a line or chord change, I'm getting something out of the experience. Again, I hope others enjoy it, but it helps a LOT if their reaction/response isn't what defines a good experience. Some of my best efforts have fallen on deaf ears, while more modest performances sometimes lead to nice feedback.

Just another thought...good luck!

[FreeRider]

thanks for those thoughts and interesting experiences, glgbill.

I just found a place in DC that does open mic nites but it's designed for a non-judgmental crowd, other aspiring songwriters and all. Sounds like a cool place where people are encouraging you, I'll have to check that place out.

Also, how about songwriting? When do your best ideas come? Or is it random? I ask because just this morning, I dunno what I was thinking as I was getting up, but maybe I had some song or something in my head, I'm not even sure, but then a short melody line popped into my head. Since I was running late for work, I didn't have time to pick up a guitar and work something out, or even flip on the 8 track and hum a little melody line into the mic.

So, I've been humming it and running it thru my head this morning. I was even listening to some music in the car but decided to cut it off, lest I forget the little melody line that I like. I'm thinking I can use it for a chorus. Weird, huh? Just a random thing that popped into my head---and those moments are few and far between.

[Jer]

Also, how about songwriting? When do your best ideas come? Or is it random?

Seems to be very different for different people. I always liked that PW quote where they asked him if he wrote ideas on napkins and he said he tired but always ended up (singing) "All these words on a napkin, and they don't make sense to me..."

Shane Macgowan, once one of the best, said he could just grab songs out of the air when he needed one and never even had to put effort into it. Amazing when thinking of some of the beautiful stuff he wrote.

For me, it goes in spurts. I'll spit out a couple, three tunes in a few days, then I'll be dry for a couple, few weeks. I'll get them about 80% done and then chew on them for a few weeks. Usually one of them is good enough to take to the band to finish, and the other 2 are either scrapped or saved for a re-write if they have potential. When we're working on a record (like now) I'll go months without writing a song, but I'll keep a long (and growing) list of ideas - titles, phrases, etc, for when I'm ready. The current focus on the studio - performance, and refining parts and lyrics, not padding the setlist.

Last December the BMI newsletter had a list of New Year's Resolutions for songwriters. The one I used was to come up with at least 1 song title every day. Could be something stupid off the top of your head, or something cool you thought of the day before, or whatever. The point was to do it every day and end up with a handful of good ones from the hundreds you kept. I was diligent for 6 months so I have a good springboard when I need to start writing again!

[anarkissed]

One thing I always questioned about Paul's practice was this idea of throwing things out, erasing, and taping over...Obviously, some things should be thrown out, but sometimes, you'll come across something you tossed off and forgot about and think: "This is pretty good! How come I never did anything with this?" The flip side are the things you thought were so great for so long and then one day you go: "This is crap! What was I thinking?"

[FreeRider]

Aug 16, 2012 14:55:15 GMT -5 Jer said:

Also, how about songwriting? When do your best ideas come? Or is it random?

Seems to be very different for different people. I always liked that PW quote where they asked him if he wrote ideas on napkins and he said he tired but always ended up (singing) "All these words on a napkin, and they don't make sense to me..."

very true, Jer....I'm just interested in other people's habits; maybe there's something I can try that might help me. I've always tried Pete Townshend's method, which he said if your memory is good enough, you can write inside your own head. So I try to keep humming a melody line in my head until I know it and then try humming variations of it to see what I can come up with. The hard part is then trying to transfer that to actual playing, keys, figuring out chord changes,e tc...!

Shane Macgowan, once one of the best, said he could just grab songs out of the air when he needed one and never even had to put effort into it. Amazing when thinking of some of the beautiful stuff he wrote.

I am amazed too at how "easy" it seems to come to others, like Paul and Neil Young. They're so prolific where as I tend to work very slowly. Things take a long time to go from idea down to a finished song.

For me, it goes in spurts. I'll spit out a couple, three tunes in a few days, then I'll be dry for a couple, few weeks. I'll get them about 80% done and then chew on them for a few weeks....

Wow, that's great. I rarely ever have been able to put a few songs together so quickly. Even rough ideas. I suppose I could force it, but then I'd be stuck trying to figure out what the chorus is if I get a verse of something, or I have the chorus but don't know how to build a verse for it at that point.

I suppose forcing it and then going back for re-writes is something I should try. I thought Warren Zevon's quote from a Performing Songwriter's interview was funny. They asked how do you get over writer's block and he responded, well, you just can't force a song.
So they followed up with, then how do you finish, how do you write? And he said,well, it's obvious, you force it!

Last December the BMI newsletter had a list of New Year's Resolutions for songwriters. The one I used was to come up with at least 1 song title every day. Could be something stupid off the top of your head, or something cool you thought of the day before, or whatever. The point was to do it every day and end up with a handful of good ones from the hundreds you kept. I was diligent for 6 months so I have a good springboard when I need to start writing again!

that sounds a lot like how Warren Zevon and Paul work to some degree....they both like phrases or wordplay and that sparks an idea and gets them going.

I suppose that I should just not worry and just get ideas down, even if they are just fragments of something. I'm wondering if some of the stuff that Paul put on 49:00 or 3 O'clock Creep were just that: fragments and not fully finished songs.

[FreeRider]

Aug 16, 2012 18:39:35 GMT -5 anarkissed said:

One thing I always questioned about Paul's practice was this idea of throwing things out, erasing, and taping over...Obviously, some things should be thrown out, but sometimes, you'll come across something you tossed off and forgot about and think: "This is pretty good! How come I never did anything with this?" The flip side are the things you thought were so great for so long and then one day you go: "This is crap! What was I thinking?"

very true, anarkissed! I remember finding some old cassette tape and gave it a listen. Turned out to be some stuff when I had a 4 track analog....I do recall at the time I thought it was something catchy but after hearing it years later, my reaction was, "ugh! no wonder this was a long lost tape, this stuff is horrible!"

[GtrPlyr]

Aug 14, 2012 9:09:36 GMT -5 FreeRider said:

Also, how about songwriting? When do your best ideas come? Or is it random? I ask because just this morning, I dunno what I was thinking as I was getting up, but maybe I had some song or something in my head, I'm not even sure, but then a short melody line popped into my head. Since I was running late for work, I didn't have time to pick up a guitar and work something out, or even flip on the 8 track and hum a little melody line into the mic.

So, I've been humming it and running it thru my head this morning. I was even listening to some music in the car but decided to cut it off, lest I forget the little melody line that I like. I'm thinking I can use it for a chorus. Weird, huh? Just a random thing that popped into my head---and those moments are few and far between.

I get ideas out of the blue quite often, a melody, a lyric fragment what have you. This is why I keep a few old school tape recorders around. A few seconds and I can capture the idea. Perfect. I also have some notebooks handy for jotting down lyric or chord ideas.

My memory is pretty bad and has let me down many times so I'm not one of those "if it's a good idea I'll remember it" kinda guys. I definitely recommend any songwriter have something quick and easy they can record to in a pinch.

[FreeRider]

Oh yeah, I'm not a great "if it's a good idea, I'll remember it" type either...but your suggestion is wise one. I used to have an old micro-cassette recorder but I lost it. That was handy. But you're blessed to have ideas come often to you out of the blue.

They don't come easily to me, unfortunately. But I do remember someone telling me to try and make it a habit....pick a time and place every day just for working on stuff (easier said than done when music is just your hobby and not your profession), like conditioning yourself and your mind to produce stuff.
Most often, I get an idea just from futzing around on the guitar--it's also very random.

Here are some more questions for Jer and GtrPlyr and anyone else:

Once you have an idea, does your DAW help you to flesh out your idea, your little melody line? In other words, whatever you hear in your head, can you quickly translate it something with your Pro Tools and all if you can quickly throw down a drum beat and play around with it, hear how it sounds with let's say, violins if you're using your MIDI keyboard to call up sounds? Because if it does make it easier, then I really need to get going on the recording software and virtual synth stuff....

for now, all I have is whatever I can hear in my head. I have to sit down with the guitar and figure out what key I'm going to be in, what the chords are for that melody line. In other words, I can't always play what I hear in my head, if I'm already hearing a simple melody line with a full band around it....but if you can do it with the computer based stuff and instantly get a greater auditory example, then I have got to get moving in that direction.

[timsch]

Anybody know anything about musicman amps? Particularly the HD212 model. I've heard them before and I really like em. I think Strummer played through one. Any suggestions?

[FreeRider]

Hmmm, sorry to leave timsch hanging here. didn't see this at all.

Sorry, I have no experience with Musicman amps. All I can say is, try and follow what Keith Richards said about the only thing you need is the 'right guitar through the right amp!' The guitar you have might not sound so hot thru it. Really depends on what sound you're looking for.

Anybody have suggestions on a guitar compressor pedal? I don't play in a band, but am just looking for one for just demo and studio recording stuff.

[FreeRider]

Anyone using a limiter pedal?