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Post by anarkissed on Apr 11, 2012 19:16:13 GMT -5
I like a wide variety of tone, not that I ever really had the flexibility of equipment available to do everything I wanted to...I tend towards that warmer Gibson sound, which is what makes me somewhat leery of Fender, though I love that twangy country and surf sound, too, and I've heard plenty of people playing Fenders who didn't sound "thin"...For just screwing around at home, or recording, I've really liked this "modeling" technology...The kids had a couple of those little 30 watt Roland Cube amps, and you can get pretty decent fascimiles of a lot of different classic tones...A friend of mine had a Behringer modeling amp as well, 75 watts and a 12", I think; he loved it for recording at home, but said when he tried to play live with a full band, he was quickly overpowered...I suppose vintage tube amps will always sound good, but I think the solid state and other technology is getting better, and may offer some other benefits in the way of convenience, durability, and flexibility...
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Post by GtrPlyr on Apr 11, 2012 22:03:45 GMT -5
When I was younger I found it hard to get a tone I was happy with. I was using solid state amps and guitars that didn't suit me (things I didn't realize until later.) Eventually I got a tube amp and a Stratocaster and suddenly I was finding tones I actually liked. My go to guitars these days are my ES-335 and the Telecaster. Those coupled with my Fender or Vox give me tones I'm happy with. I also have an older Pod Amp modeling unit that sounds pretty good, use that for recording occasionally.
I also love the deep tones of my baritone guitar (tuned B E A D F# B low to high.) Something about that sound that inpsires me to play.
As for guitar players who have great tone, I've always thought Brian May had a great and distinctive sound. Mark Knopfler and George Harrison too for that matter. Albert King is another one... I dig freerider's picks too, all players with amazing tone.
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Post by anarkissed on Apr 11, 2012 23:13:54 GMT -5
Speaking of tone, here are some of my favorite specific examples:
1) Danny Cedrone - “Rock Around The Clock” - It’s such a pristine, big band swing sound, but really does rock…
2) Dick Dale - “Misirlou” - I think it’s the reverb that does it for me…
3) Dave Davies - “You Really Got Me” - Could’ve been any of those early Kinks singles, really…I still don’t understand how such a crappy little overdriven shoebox amp sound can seem so powerful and punky…
4) Erik Brann - “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida” - Just classic, distorted, reverb-soaked psychedelia…Steppenwolf and Jefferson Airplane probably did this better, but, somehow, the relative clumsiness here just adds to the appeal…
5) Jimi Hendrix -“House Burning Down” - I‘m guessing this involved some kind of phase…Appropriately, the guitar line does sound like it‘s burning…
6) Jimi Hendrix - “Machine Gun” - I think this was a Crybaby wah, a Fuzz Face, a Univibe, an Octavia, and probably extreme volume…
7) Ariel Bender - “Mott the Hoople Live” - I think this is mostly a Les Paul Junior, with the P90.
8) Jimmy Page - “Trampled Underfoot” - There’s a wah, used not so much in that “Sunshine of Your Love” way, but just as color, and what I guess you’d call a “backwards echo”…
9) Eddie Van Halen - “The Cradle Will Rock” - Not so much the solos, but that crunch rhythm…Doesn’t seem real complicated; some overdrive with a really wide phase, I guess…Whatever, when he hits that intro, it always makes me feel like I’m 15 years old, the Preludin is starting to kick in, I’ve just smoked a joint, and I’m never going to die…
10) Neil Young - “Rockin’ in the Free World” - Neil had a lot of great guitar tones, many of them very heavy, but this is one of my favorites…At one point, it seems to be so overdriven and distorted that it overloads the amp, which refuses to process it anymore, and it kinda clips off in the red, or something…It sounds like it’s melting…
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Post by GtrPlyr on Apr 12, 2012 9:18:04 GMT -5
Great examples anarkissed. I used to love playing "Rocking in the Free World" with a drummer friend of mine whenever we'd jam back in the day. The sound of Neil's guitar on that one just rages. I couldn't get that sound at the time, but I sure tried my best. Speaking of tone, here are some of my favorite specific examples: 1) Danny Cedrone - “Rock Around The Clock” - It’s such a pristine, big band swing sound, but really does rock… Definitely, and it has one of the greatest guitar solos ever. I finally got around to learning it a few weeks back. That solo is blazing, that guy was one of the first guitar shredders. 9) Eddie Van Halen - “The Cradle Will Rock” - Not so much the solos, but that crunch rhythm…Doesn’t seem real complicated; some overdrive with a really wide phase, I guess…Whatever, when he hits that intro, it always makes me feel like I’m 15 years old, the Preludin is starting to kick in, I’ve just smoked a joint, and I’m never going to die… The first half of that guitar solo is one of my all-time fave of EVH's. The somewhat jazzy chords underneath and the phrasing, perfect. And yeah, the rhythm sound is classic VH. Eddie sure loved the old flanger back in those days. |
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Apr 12, 2012 10:23:32 GMT -5
Yeah, love my setup and my tone. It took me years to get a tone I was really happy with. When I was younger I was limited by such a tight budget that I (thought I) had to choose volume over tone. I was also quite naive about what good tone is and how to get it.
That said, however, the quest for great tone is never really over, at least for me. I tend to switch it up every couple years, with each band/record/project or whatever. I am super happy now, but I was a couple years ago with my old rig too.
Ideal sound in the studio is whatever is best for the song and interesting. The song has to be the king and every sound and performance should be dependent on what is appropriate. Add in the fact that it's subjective and art and your answer is that there is no one correct answer (imo).
Ideal sound live is a bit more restrictive. You want to have great tone, obviously, but you ideally would like some diversity, depending on the style of music you play. We tend to suffer from a bit of an identity crisis between power-pop and alt-country, so I need both a good, overdriven distortion sound and more of a chimey, just-slightly overdriven sound. I also need a good boost for leads. I am able to accomplish that with the Matchless, a boost pedal and a Boss Overdrive pretty well.
In a live setting, you also need your rig to be easy and efficient. I find it very hard to get into a groove with a lot of guitar changes and mid-set amp tweaks. Especially if it's a rowdy show and I've had a couple drinks. I have to be able to rely on 1 or 2 guitars and my pedals. If I didn't need different tunings I wouldn't even use 2 guitars on stage most of the time.
So these are just things I've learned about tone and about myself over the years. One funny anecdote - a few years ago I was in a band with a guy who loved messing around with sounds in the studio. I mean, I do too, but this guy would gravitate towards the extreme or the different just for the sake of the fact that it was extreme or different and I often felt that he lost sight over what was best for the song in the process. Anyhow - he said something to me once that I found funny, but also found that it stuck with me to the point that I try to be a bit more open minded now. After a couple hours of trying out this amp and that amp, this guitar, that guitar, etc, for a certain track, he threw his hands in the air and said "I can put you in a room with any guitar and any amp on the planet and you will adjust it until it sounds like Cheap Trick." He knew that was my comfort zone at the time, and he was right.
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 12, 2012 12:50:29 GMT -5
awesome! I'm loving the guitar talk in this thread.... anarkissed, yeah, you're right; I kind of like my tone and sound to vary too, as it all depends on the song. A nice, clean Strat type sound fits in nicely for certain songs, etc...I haven't looked at amps in quite awhile but others have told me the same thing you mentioned, they've got this modeling or amp simulation stuff going on. Funny, I was just listening to And the Cradle will Rock! He's playing a Wurlitzer keyboard thru a guitar amp on that song....love that flanged or phased sound too. GtrPlyr, oh yeah, Neil's tone....my god, people have been trying to get his tones forever! There was a Guitar Player magazine interview with him and he says a lot of it hinges upon a Gibson Firebird pickup that was very microphonic and hot, he took it and plugged it right into his les Paul. And he's got a Fender Deluxe reverb that has an anomaly with the distortion channel that he likes. At 9, its fully saturated with distortion but if he moves a little towards 10, it clears up and isn't so overloaded. He has a device called the Whizzer that sits on top of the amp and will move the dial setting with a foot switch to whatever Neil wants it set to! This guy has REALLY worked on his sound and tone...! He said he's even got some old reverb unit that has springs in it. @jer, good points about tone/sound...depends on studio or playing live. I have a Tascam 8 track studio and it has some of those effects/sound program built into it...some of the pre-set distortion effects are okay and they're fun to play around with if you plug right into the board and go direct. but still, nothing like playing thru an amp! |
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Post by anarkissed on Apr 12, 2012 16:07:30 GMT -5
I can put you in a room with any guitar and any amp on the planet and you will adjust it until it sounds like Cheap Trick That's one of my favorite quotes of all time... |
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 12, 2012 16:08:36 GMT -5
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Post by anarkissed on Apr 12, 2012 16:10:15 GMT -5
He's playing a Wurlitzer keyboard thru a guitar amp on that I thought I remembered reading about him doing that, but couldn't remember what song or songs... |
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Post by GtrPlyr on Apr 16, 2012 9:31:28 GMT -5
Continuing with the tone theme.
What type of picks you folks using (thin, heavy, nylon, metal... ?) and what strings and gauges you favor?
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 16, 2012 9:57:45 GMT -5
I like using Martin or Ernie Ball thumbpicks with a medium sized shank; flat picks are medium, no real preference for brand.
For strings, I switch between D'addarios and Ernie Ball, light gauges, starting at .10; I find going down to like .09 gives it a feel as if the strings could easily break when you do some bending and it just doesn't "feel" right to me . So no extra light. The Steinberger, of course, needs double balled strings, those are light as well.
I don't know if going to a higher gauge would give me better sustain, and I don't need to let power chords to ring out endlessly, so....I just stick with a light gauge. I dunno if higher gauges would help with rhythm playing....I heard that Pete Townshend used higher gauges, like starting at .12 because he'd bash his SG's and Gibsons around with the windmilling.
For acoustics, I use Dean Markleys, Martins, and Elixirs on occasion.
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 16, 2012 9:58:05 GMT -5
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Post by anarkissed on Apr 16, 2012 11:17:25 GMT -5
Ernie Ball Regular Slinkys...Fender Thins...
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Post by GtrPlyr on Apr 16, 2012 21:37:47 GMT -5
For electric I tend to gravitate towards the 10-46 gauge strings, though depending on the guitar I've gone as heavy as 11-52. Lately I've been going with D'Addario, but I still have packs of Gibson and Dean Markley laying around that I should use. For acoustic I go with 12-53 range, usually Martin or D'Addario.
For picks I like Heavy, usually over 1 mm.
That's too bad about Petty's guitars. I've always coveted his Rickenbacker collection.
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 18, 2012 9:30:36 GMT -5
Hey, I heard Petty got his guitars back! Culver City police arrested a security guard, I heard.
And yeah, a 1960's era Rickenbacker would be pretty cool to have
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 24, 2012 13:08:42 GMT -5
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Jer
Beagle Scout
Posts: 1,186
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Post by Jer on Apr 24, 2012 20:12:52 GMT -5
Super cool site & page. Thanks.
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Squaw
Star Scout
You're the only one that you are screwin' when you put down what you don't understand~ Kristofferson
Posts: 544
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Post by Squaw on Apr 24, 2012 20:31:46 GMT -5
Yes, very nice FreeRider.
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Post by brianlux on Apr 24, 2012 23:59:04 GMT -5
For electric I tend to gravitate towards the 10-46 gauge strings, though depending on the guitar I've gone as heavy as 11-52. Lately I've been going with D'Addario, but I still have packs of Gibson and Dean Markley laying around that I should use. For acoustic I go with 12-53 range, usually Martin or D'Addario. For picks I like Heavy, usually over 1 mm. That's too bad about Petty's guitars. I've always coveted his Rickenbacker collection. Interesting that you mention picks. I had a friend many years ago who encourage me to use these Gibson picks in a shape that are more rounded on the wide end of the pick. I'm not sure what they're called but one person referred to them as banjo picks. So the other day I found a medium to medium+ pick in the standard shape most players use and noticed that the sound was different and works well for some songs but I had a hard time staying with it because my hands are so conditioned to many years using the Gibsons. Anybody else here had similar experiences? |
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 25, 2012 9:28:11 GMT -5
That just kills me....Townshend is using a Gretsch! I always thought that semi-hollows were hard to handle because of feedback and all (but come to think of it, doesn't Ted Nugent use semi's?). Excerpt from May/June 1972 Guitar Player Pete Townshend PT: I never really got into old guitars until Joe Walsh (James Gang) rang me up one night and said, “I’ve got something for you,” because we buy one another presents. He buys me old concert amps and I buy him synthesizers and we have become very good friends. Anyway, he said, “I’ve got something for you,” and I said “What?” and he said, “A 1957 Gretsch.” GP: Chet Atkins type? PT: Right, with real f-holes. I said, “Great, cheers, man,” and it turned out to be a real knockout. I was being polite. I opened the case and it was bright orange and I thought, “Ugh! It’s horrible, I hate it.” I went home and went into my studio and plugged it in and it totally wrecked me out, it’s the best guitar I’ve got now. It’s the Chet Atkins model, with double pickups, f-holes and single cut-away. GP: Doesn’t it have a mellow sound, though; it doesn’t “chunck”, does it? PT: Oh, I used that guitar on every track on Who’s Next, it’s the best guitar I’ve ever had. It’s the finest guitar I’ve ever owned, it’s the loudest guitar I’ve ever owned. It is so loud, man, it whips any pickup that I’ve ever come across. It’s maybe six or seven times louder than anything I’ve come across. If I plugged it in my amp tonight, normally I’d be working on volume 6 or 7, but I would work this guitar on 1. Read the rest here: blog.gretsch.com/pete-townshend-discovers-gretsch-magica-gift-from-joe-walsh-makes-history/2001/10/A Gretsch! Who knew it would sound so killer in the studio? I had never thought about that before: a guitar for recording versus a guitar for the stage and performance. Check out this other page: www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/guitar/gretsch.htmlSome nice photos of the axe.... |
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