Guitar talk

[FreeRider]

I was just doing some, uh, research on the internet here at work while the boss is out of the office regarding my amp and while it has a great, clean channel, others have noted too that the gain has a kind of muddiness to it. I came across a site where someone has posted mods to the Carvin and how it can help "open" up the gain channel and alleviate some of the muddiness and likened it to removing a "heavy blanket from the front of the amp". I don't have the time or expertise to do any mods to the amp, so I'll be content to use that old Boss OD pedal I forgot I had!

Interesting stuff....I'm not the only that noticed there's a certain muddiness to the Carvin Vintage 33. I like the warmth of the tubes when the gain is dialed in around 5-7, but past that is when I get too much lows and mids when you really max out.

Regarding those chain music stores, true, I don't want to paint all the sales staff as jerks, I did meet that one sales guy who was really helpful at the Guitar Center. I had his business card and everything but he left before I could go back and establish a relationship with him.

But even my local, home grown music store kind of has that vibe.....like Jer said, even the home grown stores that have been the big name in the area forever can kind of take their customers for granted. And my local store has been around forever and was the biggest fish in the pond until Guitar Center moved into the area.

[Jer]

I have spent so much time and money working on my tone over the years. It's as important to me as a runner's shoes or a gear head's Camaro. My friends and I get on a roll sometimes at the bar and our wives and girlfriends sit there rolling their eyes and checking their watches for hours as we talk about this pickup and that amp and this pedal and those strings. Playing the guitar is so fun when you love your tone and have that control. Second to that is talking about it.

FreeRider - you might also consider looking into a Vox AC-15[/u][/url]. Check out the video. My uncle is kinda like you - doesn't really play gigs, but plays a lot at home and really works hard on his tone. He had this 100w Marshall that was way more amp than he needed. He went with me to test drive the Matchless and after that he knew what he had to do. He didn't have the budget for (or even access to) a Matchless, and doesn't need more than 1x12. They sold him the AC-15 and he just loves it.

Check out the OD in the video. And the clean channel. Might be a good fit with the Steinberger. At about 1/4 the cost of a Matchless, you're still getting a good British made tube amp with killer overdrive and lots of diversity for a fraction of the price!

[GtrPlyr]

May 3, 2012 17:39:39 GMT -5 Jer said:

FreeRider - you might also consider looking into a Vox AC-15

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I second the Vox suggestion. No suprise though as I own one and love it (I posted a pic of mine earlier in the thread.)

The Vox is one of the best values for money and surprisingly versatille for such a straightforward amp. Great for everything from country and blues to jazz and rock and roll.

[FreeRider]

Excellent suggestions! Much thanks....true, it would be a bargain compared to the Matchless or other boutique amps.

Jer, that's so funny---and so true. Once you start a conversation on your gear, it's bores the hell out of not just the women, but anyone who doesn't play. The way I see it, everyone has his or her own hobby, or thing. If you don't, you should find something that becomes a passion. I truly enjoy the pleasure of making sounds and trying to see if I can get the right tone and sound that I hear in my head. And there's something very satisfying about having a passion like music---it's a stress release, it's something that reaches into your emotional core. It's just fun!

And while I don't gig (but I've been meaning to get my ass to do an open mic night for a long time), I do enjoy noodling around on the guitar, plunking away, trying to work on song ideas to record. What I find interesting is that when I see some of these people at open mic nights (acoustic stuff, hardly any electrics), I can honestly say that my own original song stuff seems far, far more interesting than what some of these folks do. I went to one in DC---a very non-competitive open mic night and very performer friendly---and I was amazed at how goofy some people's stuff were. I was hoping to run into some folks who took it a little more seriously so that I could maybe find a new group of people to connect musically with. One guy was up there and it sounded like he was just in his living room practicing something....I mean, there was no real song structure I could hear, no repetition, no nothing. AND he had to borrow someone else's guitar for this!

Anyway, getting back on topic, since I don't really gig and am really playing for fun and the occasional home recording demo, how do you like to mic your amps? How does that Vox AC-15 sound for recording?

For awhile, I've gotten lazy with just running the guitar direct into the board and get tone from the pre-set sounds and effects on the 8 track, but I figure I should probably see how others do it.

I've typically just jammed a dynamic mic right up to the amp's grill, and maybe one back a ways to try and see if I can capture some other ambience (usually, a second mic doesn't make much of a difference with my small set up). Sometimes, if I want more of the low end of the guitar sound (usually not a problem, though), I'll stick the amp in a corner and tilt it facing up at an angle. I'll mic a few feet away from the amp and upwards, to catch the reflective sounds waves bouncing out of the corner of the walls.

[Jer]

GtrPlyr can speak better to recording the the AC15 than I can, but I've used an AC30 a few times in the studio and loved it.

This is the best mic I've ever owned for recording a guitar amp. If I am in a studio though, I'll usually leave it up to the engineer and only switch if I don't like it.

In my own studio I'll always use the 906 and sometimes pair it with a 57, 58 or a Sen MD421. I like using 2 mics on an amp and mixing together for 1 tone. I've had great success getting a wider frequency with the right pair - one getting the frequencies the other misses.

I also like using 2 amps with 2 mics on each then mixing the 4 tracks together as 1 guitar track. Super thick tone, especially when you get the right mix - like a Class A (Vox/Matchless) paired with a Marshall or an Ampeg or something. I ususally don't go through that when I'm demoing at home, but often will in the studio.

Running direct for recording is kind of a sin to a purist. The amp is more than half of the source of your tone. I'll run direct when I am practicing, but never for a track.

Of course...there are exceptions. All of the guitars on Zen Arcade and New Day Rising were recorded straight into the board. Yeah, they sound like it, but it's such a unique and definitive sound. And then there's Keith. He admitted that he ran straight into the board for the track 999 (i think) off his Main Offender record. he said it flew in the face of everything he believes in, but he just couldn't deny the amazing tone.

And you can run direct, clean, then run the track out of your board and through any amp/rig that you want. Mic the amp then. That's a cool process that is used more than you think (saw Gilmour did it on Another Brick In the Wall part 2 solo). Just get the performance to tape (or disk) and you can play with amp tone all day.

[FreeRider]

Thanks for the suggestion on the dynamic mic....I've just been using Shures, but will take a gander at the Sen.

I don't have enough mics to be able to double up on two amps, but I like the idea of beefing up the guitar parts and I've done that by basically copying the main recorded guitar track to other empty tracks and maybe panning one a little to the left, the other a little to the right while the rest of the guitar tracks are dead center.

sure, going right into the board is a sin if you got great equipment and professional set up, but with my limited gear and recording set up going straight into the board is the lazy man's way of getting some stuff down in a hurry. But then again, I've also found that it creates a weird kind of tone as well....I would sometimes get a very interesting dry sound and a much raspier tone when getting setting the levels a little higher and getting slighty distorted sound going direct into my old 4 track analog and then I'd add a little signal processing to it during the mix down, a touch of reverb or whatever. But with my newer 8 track hard disk recorder, I don't get those weird tones....it's just a very clean sound until I process the signal with the pre-set effects on the board.

Interesting, I hadn't heard that story about Keith and 999 (great song, great groove)....I guess when you don't have professional grade recording gear, you can experiment and do all kinds of stuff because there are no hard and fast rules when you're just wood shedding as opposed to being in a studio with experienced engineers who know how to get the best out of your sound.

Another great tip, hadn't heard that about Gilmour---that might be a fun thing to try!

[GtrPlyr]

May 4, 2012 19:43:19 GMT -5 Jer said:

This is the best mic I've ever owned for recording a guitar amp.

Thanks for the heads up on the mic Jer. It wasn't on my radar, looks like it should be though. The price range isn't too bad either. Will be checking into one when I get the chance.

You got me thinking about recording gear. What are you folks that have home studios using to get your music down?

I was using an analog 8-Track until early last year when I finally made the switch to digital out of necessity. Would have liked to have remained analog but upgrading to a better analog system is way out of my price range.

I'm not much of a tech-head--more a record quickly and painlessly with minimal tweaking sort--but I do like to hear what equipment others are using. Here's what I'm currently using:

DAW:
Windows 7 Home Premium
Processor: Intel Core i7 CPU 950@3.07 GHz
Memory: RAM 12.0 GB
System Type: 64-bit operating system
Harddrives: 3 x Samsung HD103SJ ATA (931 GB x 3)
CD/DVD Drive: Samsung - TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223L ATA

Software Plugins:
Native Instruments Komplete 7
Native Instruments AbbeyRoad 60s Drums
Native Instruments AbbeyRoad 70s Drums
Toontrack Superior Drummer 2.0

Outboard Gear:
AUDIO INTERFACE:
RME Fireface 800

AMP SIMULATORS/DIRECT BOXES:
Line6 Pod
SansAmp (the old stomp box version with the dip switches)
SansAmp Bass

MIC PREAMPS:
A.R.T. PRO MPA Mic Preamp
Symetrix SX202 Dual Mic Preamplifier

COMPRESSORS:
dbx 166XL Compressor/Limiter/Gate
Alesis 3630 Compressor/Limiter/Gate

EFFECTS:
Lexicon LXP-1 Multi Effects Processor

MICROPHONES:
AKG C-451-B
AKG D112
AKG C 414 B-ULS
AKG SE 300 B (x2)
Audio Technica AT-3060
Shure SM-57 (x2)
Shure SM-58

DRUM MACHINES:
Korg DDD-5
Boss DR-880

[FreeRider]

Very cool stuff, GtrPlyr....I'm no tech head either nor am I well versed in the computer based stuff. At some point, I will have time to figure out all the computer stuff, but until then, I like just hitting the record button and playing using hardware rather than software. I do have to say, though, that the software makes it a lot easier to save stuff that's on old cassettes and make them a digital archive. I recently found an old cassette demo I had made about 10 years ago and I played it and it didn't sound too bad but I did notice there were some drop outs. And this was a song that I cared about so I had to save the master tracks and make them digital before I lose anymore.


Software
Cakewalk Sonar 4
Demo version Toontrack

Hardware:
Tascam DP 02 8 track Digital Portastudio
Yamaha MT 100 ( ? ) 4 track analog

Audio Interface
M-Audio Firewire
Korg MIDI keyboard

EFFECTS:
Yamaha FX500 multi effects signal processor

MICROPHONES:
MXL 990
Shure SM-57 (x2)
Audio Technica dynamic (can't remember which one off top of my head)
AKG dynamic

DRUM MACHINE:
Boss DR-550

STUDIO MONITORS
KRK Rockit 5

[Jer]

I am running ProTools LE 8 with the Avid DigiDesign 003 Rack into a MAC-mini Snow Leopard server. I usually go right into the interface using their pre-amps but I also have a ProCo direct box that I use for bass (or guitar when I run direct to practice). I’ve got a few SM58s and a couple 57s, that E906 and a 42 as well as a Sterling Audio ST55 condenser mic I use for virtually all vocals and percussion.

I have a lot of plug-ins I use that came with my LE/Digi Rack. The Joe Meek delays and compressors are great. I also have the Guitar-Solo3 from waves that has all the amps and effects for guitars and bass. IR-L Reverb, and a whole bunch of other stuff, more than I can think of. There’s a bunch of compressors, delays, reverbs, and other things.

There’s a drum machine built in to a couple of my plug ins, but I usually just mic a snare with brushes for demos or mic a whole kit if recording the band. I have a keyboard that I use for Midi (Avid I think) and use a plug in to use it as an organ, piano, horns, whatever. In the old days I would use an Yamaha RX17 into a Fostex X28 4 track.

ProTools was a bit intimidating at first but I was committed to learning it so I could take and use files to and from other studios. I am getting pretty good at it, but always feel like I am barely scratching the surface at what it can do, especially after watching someone who really knows what they’re doing.

[GtrPlyr]

Thanks for sharing guys. I guess I forgot to mention that I use "Cubase 6." I still feel like a relative amateur with the software. So much to learn and it's a lot slower going than I'd like. Coming from the world of analog where everything is easily laid out with knobs and faders, I'm finding the digital world less intuitive than I'd hoped. I'm getting things done, but I feel like I'm not always doing it in the most efficient manner. Hopefully with time I learn some more tricks to make the process easier.

You have some great gear Jer. I'm a fan of Joe Meek's productions, those compressor and delay plugins have my interest piqued. Being based on Meek's gear I'm assuming they have some unique/quirky aspects to them. Are they usuable for a wide assortment of music or do you find you use them just for specific types of music?

Speaking of compressors, I just got the Abbey Road EMI RS124 Compressor plugin. I hope to install that and give it a go very soon. They've modeled 3 of the best units in Abbey Road studios from the '60s so it has some promise .

[Jer]

The Joe Meek stuff is cool - I use it for all sorts of things. I am no master at plug ins, mixing or especially compressors, but I often use the delay as a slapback on vocals and the compressors on most things, although I've had better luck with some different compressors with some built in settings for specific things - bass, acoustic guitar, vocals, whatever. I also use a master fader track and usually put a slight reverb and compressor on that to kind of tie the whole mix together.

I've heard nothing but good things about they Abbey Road plug ins. We are looking at using the AR upright piano on our record on a track.

[FreeRider]

Excellent stuff you folks are working with....but as I stated, I'm a little bit behind the curve on the computer and software stuff. My Cakewalk was supposed to be a good entry level starting off point, but after having it for several years, I find it much easier to go back to the 8 track where I have much more uptime. Maybe Cubase is easier? I dunno.

And I have more up time because, like GtrPlyr said, some of that stuff is not as intuitive as you'd think and I just hate spending a lot of time trying to get the settings just right. But I do have to say that creating drum maps or tracks seems a hell of a lot easier than trying to program a drum machine---I still haven't mastered making drum loops and patterns in Cakewalk and it's a huge pain for me to figure it out right now. I suppose at some point, I will have to be upgrade to a much faster processing computer and really commit to learning the damn basics.....

There seems to be a lot there in Cakewalk for me to mess around with, the virtual synth, the dxi stuff or whatever it's called....I guess I'm really cheating myself by not spending more time in figuring this stuff out.

A friend of mine who runs a small pro studio keeps telling me to stop fooling around and just go buy a Power Mac off of eBay or something and he'll help me get started.

[Jer]

FreeRider - There is definitely a learning curve with ProTools, and it's a bit intimidating and frustrating early on, but I've found it to be so worth it. The editing capabilities alone are just far above everything else out there (from what I've seen & heard). Tweaking and experimenting with arrangements is such a luxury that I'm just not sure I could live without it at this point. Like I said earlier, I still have so much to learn with PT, but within a few hours I was getting stuff that was leagues better than anything I had before.

I considered CuBase, and from what I learned in my research it's a great tool and easier to learn than PT. For me the deciding factor was that PT is the industry standard. I can work on files at home and take them into a professional studio and just call them up - and vice-versa. Of course there are missing plug-ins sometimes and all that, but it's not hard to get around that. It's saved me a lot of time and money. I don't think you would go wrong with PT or CB, and I don't think you'd regret it after a couple weeks.

Not sure about CB, but my version of PT came with a bunch of really cool plug ins too (the Joe Meek stuff and a bunch of other stuff too).

[FreeRider]

Thanks for the encouragement, Jer.....I'm sure that PT is much more complicated than the Cakewalk stuff I sort of use on occasion. I can definitely see where the editing and all could be a real time saver in that you don't have to worry about punching in/out at a mistake you made; it seems like with the click of a mouse, you can fix it right away.

probably, I should upgrade my CPU, which is like a Pentium 4, I don't think I have any latency issues, but it's probably best to get lots of memory and lots of hard drive space and a fast processor, right? It would only make sense....that's why that one guy keeps telling me to just go on ebay or something and get a PowerMac.

Aslo, the tutorials for Cakewalk aren't that great, it seems. I find myself having to go search online to find tutorials or others who have tips on how to create drum maps, etc...

[Jer]

You need a good processor and as much RAM and HD space as possible. I have 8GB RAM I think and whatever comes in the Mac-Mini for a processor and it's fine for about 85% of what I do but I do have issues sometimes when the plug ins start to pile up.

There's tons of great resources for PT too. I'm not one for books usually but I do have a really good book for learning the basics that comes with exercises and sessions on a DVD. It was very helpful to me. Usually when I get stuck I refer to that, Google or one of the PT forums and I am on my way pretty quick. Stress again - there is a learning curve and it can get frustrating at first, but it's worth it.

[anarkissed]

Has anyone ever played any Gretsch products? They just look cool...

[FreeRider]

No, but I'd love to see how they sound and feel. Neil Young in his early days had the White Falcoln:



And I think I posted a link here to some article on Pete Townshend's sound and it said that he recorded a lot of the studio stuff with a Chet Atkins Gretsch model that Joe Walsh gave to him as a gift.

And you're right, they do look cool....especially with those Bigsby tremelo bars.

[anarkissed]

Yeah, those top-of-the-line Falcon, Country Gentlemen, and Tennessean models are exquisite, but priced appropriately...However, Gretsch does offer some interesting guitars in the $500-$700 range; those are the ones I'd really like to hear more about...Looking them up on Wikipedia, it appears that there was a drop-off in production quality sometime after their 50's/60's heyday, when they were a subsidiary of Baldwin Pianos, of all things...Recently, they are in some kind of deal with Fender, and that has apparently upgraded their status considerably...
Two other brand lines I find fascinating are Mosrite and Vox...Don't know if these are even in production anymore; I'll look at it later when I'm bored...

[FreeRider]

You know, a co-worker of mine was jonesin' to get a brand new Gibson and his guitar luthier/repair guy, who also is a collector and trader, told him that Gibson has been resting on its laurels for a long time and that their quality isn't what it used to be. He felt the same way about Fender but had harsher criticisms of Gibson.

He said that if you really wanted to get a good guitar, similar to Gibson, but better made, go get this Korean made guitar called Agile, that make Les Paul style guitars. My co-worker wound up getting one and I played it and the action felt great, the pick ups were fine. And it was way less than what you'd pay for a brand new Les Paul. You could almost get a Gibson sticker and put it on the head stock and you'd almost never know it was any different.

[FreeRider]

I was out of town for a few days last week, decided to take a long weekend and head to the eastern shore and the beach resorts where a bartender friend of mine works and lives. She moved about 4 years ago out of the city and to the shore.

So while diddy boppin' around the boardwalk, I saw a coffee shop nearby that did acoustic only open mic nites on Friday evenings. I've been meaning to do one for quite some time now just to test out some stuff and maybe drop a few Paul songs in there to gauge reaction to his songs.

Well, I got too sloppy at happy hour at my bartender friend's bar and missed doing the open mic. By 8pm, I was in no shape to get in front of a coffee shop crowd and warble out and slur my words! I was toying with doing maybe "AAA" or a not quite accurate version of " Makin' Me Go" or "Let the Bad Times..." those songs came to the top of my head when I was out there.

If you had the chance to do a spur of the moment open mic nite, which Paul songs would you try and do? And which songs do you think translate well to acoustic guitar? Which Paul songs do you think a coffee house crowd by the beach would like?