YouTube patrol

[kgp]

The Velvet Underground and Sonic Youth are just as much as part of indie-punk rock as the Replacements (if not much more so), but no one has ever called either "suburban music" because of each group's respective connections with the NYC "art world". "Suburban" can be just a substitute world for "simple" or "traditional".

What if I said "college rock," for lack of a better pigeonhole rather than indie? For whatever reason, the Replacements resonated with alienated suburban kids, or alienated suburban rock critics enough to have that label affixed to them.

[scoOter]

kgp said:

For whatever reason, the Replacements resonated with alienated suburban kids, or alienated suburban rock critics enough to have that label affixed to them.

this makes some sense, and it sort of proves my point: replacements are tagged "suburban" because of the bands & fans they spawned.

anyway, tarzan, you got into a whole lot of issues with your post, and i felt a little like you were attacking me. it probably wasn't the case, but to respond:

i think it is racist to equate city with black*. that's all. it is equally racist to equate suburban with white*. if not out & out racist, it is certainly myopic. it's simply not that easy. i mean, look at the beastie boys. they are pretty white, but still very urban. yet, they appeal to a lot of white college kids (i certainly love paul's boutique). what about bad brains, then? i love them, too. luscious jackson, too, is an interesting example. at least on "natural ingredients", they positively oozed nyc.

also, one shouldn't forget how white suburban kids snap up hip hop albums by black artists. what does that make the artists? suburban or urban?

i was talking about place & setting, not race anyway. the 'mats were a city band playing city music; informed by their surroundings. to me, at any rate.

edit - *i mean that i think it is as insulting to think white people don't live in "the city", as it is to think that black people don't live in "suburbia".

[kgp]

this makes some sense, and it sort of proves my point: replacements are tagged "suburban" because of the bands & fans they spawned.

I think, too, that those critics who label the Replacements' music as suburban are confusing "Midwestern" with suburban. I live in the city, and I live in the Midwest, but by no means would I equate St. Louis with New York. (As someone mentioned earlier, Velvet Underground, Sonic Youth, ect.. bands that have had a large impact on indie-alt-punk rock and are definiitely rooted in urban life.)

[scoOter]

kgp said:

I think, too, that those critics who label the Replacements' music as suburban are confusing "Midwestern" with suburban.

you got that right. and i suppose that this is the bone of my beef with the tagging of the 'mats suburban: it is ultimately a coastal elitist thing.

"how can a band from fly-over country be urban? when do they even have time to cut records? what with the planting & harvesting & barn raising?"

look, once you have an urban area of over a million people the differences between nyc & that place are a matter of degrees. i'm not saying nyc isn't a great place, but you can find most all of the same things in milwaukee or st. louis. just not in the same numbers.

[FreeRider]

scooteR, nice points and thanks for clarifying some stuff. I understand where you're coming from. Again, me personally? I don't care who's playing it (like you pointed out Bad Brains, Beastie Boys) as long as it's genuine and heartfelt and in the spirit of the genre. Whether or not it comes from the 'burbs or the city, I don't care. The minute I smell deception or some sort of exploitation, you're then a fraud in my eyes.

I dunno if I can agree with Tarzan that "Most white folks I've heard playing the blues ought to be slapped. Is that racist?" It's only racist if you think black musicians are the only ones who can play the blues well and have some sort of exclusivity on being able to play this genre. The music, any music, in and of itself, knows no color---you have people who are just creating sounds from instruments that conform to a genre. Some are better able to produce those sounds better than others (ie, the quality of musicianship).

Anyway, I guess these "journalists" or critics like to just stereotypically label something. And that's actually being a poor journalist, when you're too lazy to read and research the subject matter that you're critiquing or writing about. It's easiest to just throw labels out there and get your article done on deadline...

[Tarzan]

ScooteR,

I apologize for anything in my post that sounded as though I attacked you personally. You are correct, that was not my intent. It was just a disagreement about suburban vs urban. I regret that I raised the argument to another racial realm. That was my mistake. Down here (one day I'll rant about the South and bands like REM once being hailed by crictics as a "new southern sound." But I got to dig myself out of this hole first.) we make a lot of jokes about white folks trying to be "authentic." It's been going on for 50 years. Guess I've heard one too many Stevie Ray Vaughan clone (And no, I don't care if anyone listens to SRV. I will occassionally like him, but he's a punchline in these parts).

You are also correct about prejudiced attutitudes that automatically equate urban with black, and suburban with white. It is ridiculous. I still view the Mats as suburban, and I need to back up my argument with more than something PW said in an interview. Maybe the Stinson brothers grew up working class but from what I've read PW lived a comfortable middle-class existence. And to start another argument, PW is the Mats. I love Slim's quote when asked about ASD being PW's first "solo" record. "He's made 7 solo records already" or something like that, was Slim's response to the interviewer. Maybe that's why Slim was not around for solo record number 15 or whatever number was assigned to the latest PW record disguised as the Replacements.

To all on the site, I don't think that all white musicians can't play the blues well. I earlier posted "most." Still, a dumb, very myopic statement on my part. I'll probably inflame a few fans with this, but I recall worshipping the Allman Brothers when I started buying albums. Then I began to dismiss them once I caught on to Howlin' Wolf, Jimmy Reed, etc. I've heard a few white acts that knocked the blues out of the ballpark: Fab Thunderbirds, Little Charlie and the Nightcats, just to name a couple. Of course, it's all just music. I'll probably like Pat Boone before all is said and done. There's certainly a place for the Allmans and a place for Little Walter and a place for Pat Boone. It's just music.

Having been born in 1955, listening to the critics and fans and the powers that be defining musical genres by racial labels was common. Doesn't make it right but early Elvis was ALWAS labeled the white guy who sounded black, and to a lesser extent, early Chuck Berry was labeled the black guy who sounded white. Supposedly, that was the key to their hit records. Thank God, this country has changed for the better racially, for the most part. Oddly, for me, music has not changed for the better. That does not mean that I think that it's necessary to return to the stupid attitudes of the past for quality music.

I walk into a bar and see white guys plugging in while billing themselves as a blues act. I sorta know what to expect, and 8 times out of 10, I'm right (at least regarding my musical tastes). If there's a big gospel show at a local church, I'm going if it's a black church but I'm staying home if it's white.

Regardless, a dumb, very myopic observation on my part in my earlier post. My self-deprecating remarks about white blues guys were out of line. Frankly, I'm the one who ought to be slapped.

[FreeRider]

Hi Tarzan,

thanks for clarifying and expanding on your thoughts. I'm better able to see where you're coming from. I can understand how you much prefer the actual tree (Howlin' Wolf, Lightnin' Hopkins, etc..)rather than the branches stemming from the same tree (Allman Bros., etc...). Even though the artists who influenced them are far greater than these guys, I still dig John Hammond, Jr. and Jorma Kaukonen.

And yes, it's all just music---some performed better than others and then you get into subjectivity of what constitutes quality. When all is said and done, you like what you like. But please, Tarzan, no need for you to start diggin' Pat Boone! ;D

[Tarzan]

Check this out. There used to be this show on Nickeldeon cable channel called "Bananas" or something. This was in the early 1980s, it was some sort of kids' show. Kind of a stupid show. Anyway, Patti Smith played piano and sang Debbi Boone's "You Light Up My Life." It was beautiful.

[FreeRider]

When will the Boone family stop haunting American popular culture?

[nowwesayitoutloud]

Lucinda Williams sings her song supposedly about Paul Westerg on Jools Holland's TV show:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouCqhAXAjgA

[mrblasty]

A very drunken interview with the mats from 1984

[ih8music]

mrblasty said:

A very drunken interview with the mats from 1984

"Can I pop that?"

Hilarious. what a bunch of assholes. ;D ;D ;D

[A Regular]

I loved the Baron Von Raschke nod.

[bombpop]

I can't believe Mike Eck didn't go on to Talkshow Superstardom.

[mcharter]

Heres me...doing regular..check it out..please lol www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5B27BgZJ7o

[ih8music]

just saw this posted...



makes me nauseous on so many levels.

[toml]

That is HILARIOUS.....How am I ever going to explain the 80's to my kids? "Ummm, yeah boys, dad grew up in the 80's but you see... the difference is...I was cool....HONEST!" I guess it could be worse, I mean imagine having to explain DISCO!?!?

[jd19jd]

No more tap water for me. It's starting to make me hallucinate. What the hell is that, the young adult version of ZOOM?

This is bribe material if you know any of these people.

[thetwilitekid]

I don't get it.

What is going on?

And why is it happening?

Make it stop!

[pat]

Wow. I thought I had pretty much seen it all.

Now I wish I hadn't.

Wow.