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Post by FreeRider on Oct 31, 2022 22:04:37 GMT -5
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Post by FreeRider on Oct 4, 2022 20:55:29 GMT -5
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Post by FreeRider on Jun 22, 2022 9:13:04 GMT -5
Once I had a really lucid dream. I was hanging out somewhere with Paul, .. Funny, I've had a few semi-lucid dreams with Paul in it. In the two or so dreams I've had where he is in it, I kind of consciously aware I was dreaming about Paul. anyway, the dreams were all about asking him about his open tunings on guitar. And one where I was trying to play him something on guitar---again, in an open tuning---and I couldn't do it or get it right, kept flubbing up in front of him. Oh well, couldn't get validation from him 😥😁 this should probably go into as separate thread but psychopharmocology mentioned something about our assumptions and I flashed upon my own assumption about Paul maybe having a good cushion after the Glen Campbell CD sales bringing in some royalty checks for him. But now, I'm more pessimistic about just how much money he made off of it and if it would last. But since curmudgeonman posted that vid on the music industry crap and the Ted Goia essay I stumbled upon, I'm really curious now about Paul and the rest of the band's financial footing. They were obviously able to make a living and be performing artists, but how the hell do they survive nowadays? There's been a paradigm shift and streaming just ain't gonna do it for them unless they magically get re-discovered by a new generation and get well over a million streams to earn them some decent royalty payments. If what Goia claims in the essay is indeed correct, then the entire label game is just tragically stunted and too slow to recognize or promote new music that really could have a cultural impact. of course, they don't care about that, they care about the money and corporate profits, not art that enhances the world. So if these newer indie bands keep getting shoved aside by the industry's push to keep marketing the bigger, older established artists, how can they ever break through? I guess it's doable, but man, that's a helluva lot of work to constantly be on these social media platforms and giving away some of your music for free versus making a deal with the devil to get a full backing from them. If even that. More likely, they'd just drop you from the label if you don't get any hits in the first few years. And you owe them money. Like the Mats getting hammered by Warner's to recoup their money after the reunion shows. Paul is in his 60's now, adverse to touring ever again, so what the hell does he do when the money runs out? I can't see his digital downloads making him lots of money, so where is his income stream apart from the occasional royalty checks he gets? Did he ever do any financial planning for himself while saving to send Johnny to college?
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Post by FreeRider on Jun 21, 2022 14:28:23 GMT -5
Thanks for posting- here is a clip I saw last year, a very good explanation of the music industry and money. And another interesting video of Neil Young in a small record shop, realizing they are selling unauthorized recordings of his work. hey, thanks for those curmudgeonman. I had seen the Neil one before. But yeah, the industry is set up to really put the band or artist behind the 8 ball, and I kind of knew that before but seeing the graphs and how it's broken down really has an impact.
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Post by FreeRider on Jun 21, 2022 14:17:55 GMT -5
We could think of things like that all day to use as examples. Really my point boils down to the fact that I don't think music is a temple, I think it's something to be used, enjoyed, and studied. I don't feel this makes me a bad person and I don't really care if it does? I just like music, what can I say. If something helps people get through life, why think about it too hard? Basically I don't think anyone has the right to take themselves that seriously and if you do, you're doing it wrong. I don't know if there's anything left to say, really. Anyway, apparently as per the Hoffman forum these things are still shipping, so anyone who objects to the release, I don't think you should listen to this. Out of respect for the band. Well, I don't think you're a bad person and since you don't care what people think, my thoughts don't really matter I guess. But you've got your viewpoints and I have my own, I may understand a bit where you're coming from but I don't know if I agree entirely as I have my own viewpoints as well. I do understand the historical, archival instincts though, I had a little bit of that as well one time with one artist. We all make our own choices that suit us best as we see/feel fit. There are many paths in life, not everyone will travel on the path you're walking on. That's life for ya
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Post by FreeRider on Jun 21, 2022 14:09:57 GMT -5
...I'm just a little to the left of Chairman Mao, but, Jesus, this is some hardcore communal property concept you have going here... Mao, more than ever! share and share alike, eh comrade? 😁😄
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Post by FreeRider on Jun 21, 2022 12:00:35 GMT -5
There are some things that to me fall into gray areas. And there different perspectives on things, some I agree with, others I don't. Am I guilty of being in possession and enjoying bootlegged stuff someone painstakingly put together and shared? Yes, of course. However, these things were not expressly prohibited by the artists.
Some are and have been prohibited from day one by the artists (like one former Jefferson Airplane member whose show I wanted) and I have to respect that they don't want bootlegs of their shows circulating around on these torrents. Was I able to obtain some anyway from some sketchy sites? Yes, but not from purchasing so that no one person financially profited from the shows being released. Does that make me a hypocrite? Yes, in some ways it does because I don't know the motives behind the original taper. But at least I have a standard: that the work I obtained wasn't for sale but to be shared among fans.
Look, I appreciate and understand the archivist sentiments, yet I do have to disagree about not respecting an artist's wishes or be dismissive of it. Yes, it's music but it's not just music. It's someone's livelihood, their intellectual and creative property and/or something personal to them. Not everything needs to be seen or heard by the artist and it's not up to me to decide on the behalf of the artist what gets to be shared.
Now, maybe if I'm a band member, an accountant, lawyer or something for the band and the artists, I might have a say to the person who wrote the material. I remember that Roger Daltry got mad at Townshend for withholding material from the band (post Moon) and thus additional albums after Face Dances and It's Hard. Townshend said the material was all wrong for the band and Daltry said something like, "but it's not up to you to make a final decision, it's the band." In the end, the material was too experimental and Townshend was correct....there was no way that Daltry and Entwistle would've made it work because those songs were really for Townshend and him only.
And who knows what goes through Paul's mind. But I'm not one to cross him. I remember at one of the in-store appearances, he got mad that the store was showing behind him the "Seeing Through Paul" promotional video. And he told the store to turn it off, that they weren't supposed to have it and he'll call his lawyer after the appearance. Just something he said when he was miffed? Maybe, maybe not---but he still has legal recourse over his intellectual property. Maybe not the movie itself, but his performances and songs in it though are his properties.
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Post by FreeRider on Jun 20, 2022 12:07:24 GMT -5
interesting discussion here. I'm on the side of trying to respect the artist's work and I'm not as comfortable with stuff that falls into the those gray areas--is this authorized, not authorized? Official or not? First, like anyone else, I don't want to get ripped off. Second, I don't know if I should be supporting someone I don't know who may be profiting in ways that I don't like. So that's my personal feeling about the matter. Also, I don't know if there would be consequences that could legally affect me as well as the seller. I accidentally got an unreleased song from an artist that was on the label's publishing website that was licensing songs for all of their artists for commercial use. It was an unknown and unreleased tune to everyone and I tried to save the little sample clip of it, like a 10 second sample. I guess there was a glitch with the website and I actually got the entire song, not the sample! I was pretty worried that somehow the IT guys at the label would see that something got downloaded illegally and this big record label would come after me. I have never shared it for fear of legal action and also, I'd feel guilty that I had something that the artist wasn't planning on releasing yet, if ever. That's theft, intentionally or not, and I felt bad for having it. And also, the idea that Paul has a lot more money than he actually does is interesting. I assumed the same, figuring he had some big money from publishing and copyright royalties from Glen Campbell's farewell CD, and the Sony soundtrack to Open Season. It may have given him some financial cushion, but I don't think it made him wealthy at all, regardless of him not owning a car or driving. He certainly doesn't seem to be living extravagantly, and maybe out of necessity he really lives within his means. He's not dirt poor but it's not like he owns a fancy lake side house or anything or some fancy condo in the city, right? Moreover, there is a really interesting essay by Ted Goia in the Atlantic that came out this winter that shows why new music is having such a hard time making money. I have no idea how bands can make a living since streaming pays nothing at all. And Paul's music, while "old", never had much broader impact as the so called classic rock stuff. The essay is here: www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/old-music-killing-new-music/621339/A quote from the essay: Old songs now represent 70 percent of the U.S. music market, according to the latest numbers from MRC Data, a music-analytics firm. Those who make a living from new music—especially that endangered species known as the working musician—should look at these figures with fear and trembling. But the news gets worse: The new-music market is actually shrinking. All the growth in the market is coming from old songs.
The 200 most popular new tracks now regularly account for less than 5 percent of total streams. That rate was twice as high just three years ago. The mix of songs actually purchased by consumers is even more tilted toward older music. The current list of most-downloaded tracks on iTunes is filled with the names of bands from the previous century, such as Creedence Clearwater Revival and The Police.
I encountered this phenomenon myself recently at a retail store, where the youngster at the cash register was singing along with Sting on “Message in a Bottle” (a hit from 1979) as it blasted on the radio. A few days earlier, I had a similar experience at a local diner, where the entire staff was under 30 but every song was more than 40 years old. I asked my server: “Why are you playing this old music?” She looked at me in surprise before answering: “Oh, I like these songs.”
Never before in history have new tracks attained hit status while generating so little cultural impact. In fact, the audience seems to be embracing the hits of decades past instead....
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 20, 2022 20:01:34 GMT -5
hey funker, been away from the board for awhile. I'm amazed at what you've compiled since I last checked in, good work!
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 29, 2022 18:14:35 GMT -5
And here's another one: www.caroleking.com/discography/songs/maybe-i-amFrom the AV interview: "I wouldn't be a good one to sit down, knee-to-knee, to try to write a song with someone. I did it with Carole King, oddly enough. No one hardly knows about this, but we wrote a couple of songs together. I was in between labels or something, and the publishing company suggested it. I went over to her apartment. Boy, she just sat down and was like, "Okay, let's write." She started hitting something, and I was just rifling through my little grab-bag of scraps of paper and started giving her words. We wrote about three songs that were pretty schmaltz, the sort of thing that sounds like what happens when two people get together and want to write a song for someone else." www.avclub.com/paul-westerberg-1798208293
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 25, 2022 11:59:00 GMT -5
funker, nice work doing the rarities compilation stuff. Just wanted to let you know that Paul sang lead on Two Tickets to Paradise for the Neighbors at a wedding gig. I dunno if you wanted to include this? My brother's college room mate was the band manager for the Neighbors, they played a wedding where Paul was in attendance. Link to an mp3 of that performance is on the Neighbors FB page: www.facebook.com/theneighborsdcI had mentioned this here in this thread, which has some more info: paulwesterberg.proboards.com/thread/661/random-replacements-sighting-day?page=159
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 25, 2022 11:49:22 GMT -5
yeah kinda sucks always going to see some shows by yourself, I've done that a number of times. I remember in college trying to get someone to go with me to the Mats shows in DC (basically someone with a car!) but nobody knew who the Mats were and didn't want to go. But no worries, I couldn't have made that gig anyway due to some family stuff I was doing.
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 19, 2022 18:31:31 GMT -5
I believe I got some of those tunes aforementioned as well. If I recall, Shopping Bag (or Diary) was part of the Mono/Stereo demos and it came to me with audio distortion, like the recording levels were a little too high.
I'd have to dig thru some external hard drives or DVD discs that should have them if anyone is looking for stuff. I have no idea what Pleasure of Your Company and Thoroughbred are from or if these were just Paul's home demos.
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 18, 2022 21:39:48 GMT -5
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 18, 2022 20:02:56 GMT -5
Hmmm, it seems like King of America may be the same one on the I Don't Care's CD, if it's an out take. The entire CD were Paul's old demos he had and I thought he threw us a bone with the unreleased track of King of America
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 18, 2022 19:55:55 GMT -5
Here is "Cheyenne" for those asking about it, spent all morning searching people's scrobbles on last.fm trying to find the person who scrobbled the track! Many thanks to Jodi for keeping up with a copy. Great tune. Hoping to score that CD for "King of America" as well and I think then that should put to bed most of these very limited one-off promo tracks minus She Looks Like Rain we.tl/t-GiUGgopPFKwhoa!! just logged on and saw this thread. Much thanks! As for King of America, is that a different version from the one on the I Don't Care's CD he did with Julianna???
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Post by FreeRider on Feb 28, 2022 10:49:30 GMT -5
He's been saying for a very long time he doesn't have much to say anymore, but maybe his inspiration has overcome his lack of drive from time to time, these last 15-20yrs. As we age, inspiration can be a very rare commodity, given the individual. I'd def like to hear something new from him again (or, more exciting would be that Midway video), but who knows... www.youtube.com/watch?v=agPxkQqSj-AYep, valid points! he told us quite awhile ago about AAA. Inspiration, motivation---it gets harder for even me to muster up enthusiasm to work out, go for a run or walk, do some body weight exercises. My energy levels aren't what they once were. My old running partner (when I used to be a consistent runner) told me, "The hardest part of running is lacin' them up and getting out the door." And yes, I'd still like to hear something new from Paul too. Even if he's past his songwriting peak, I still think he's got some juice left to crank out some stuff we'd enjoy. I've said before, I hope he goes out with a bang and gives the fans a final hurrah one last time, if he's really hanging it up and calling it a day on his music career. So come on, Paul meet us down the alley once last time to say goodbye... 😥
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Post by FreeRider on Feb 28, 2022 10:36:17 GMT -5
Well, I'm a bit of a dinosaur myself. I still like CD's, albums. I still dig the artwork, the liner notes, the hidden messages scratched out on the vinyl, stuff like that. Yet, I'm resigned to this new way of consuming music. However, I'm not too sold on streaming platforms as much. I had a free trial of Sirius Radio and it was ok, and CONVENIENT in terms of hearing something you wanted to hear, when you wanted to hear it. However, I just couldn't see myself subscribing when I realized I listened to only a few channels. It's like cable TV---you also get 100 more channels of shit that you'd never watch outside of your favorites.
So yes, the younger generation is more in tuned with these other ways to build a fan base. It is totally outside the "let's-get-signed-to-a-label!" ethos that the artist was beholden to. It's a DIY ethos now and it requires a lot of skill sets apart from just the music. And maybe that's good because it forces the new artist to learn about some business stuff, about merchandising, and about marketing. That's kind of what the essay in the Atlantic mentioned as well. A performing arts career can be made but it'll take a lot of sweat and work.
So it's a totally new world out there. We're living through a period of great change in the entire world, our societies. It can be scary for the performing artist, change sometimes doesn't have a good outcome unless you can adapt quickly and figure things out. But you either adapt and find ways or you flame out and fade away into the dustbin of history.
"To change with change remains the changeless state." Bruce Lee
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Post by FreeRider on Feb 27, 2022 9:38:15 GMT -5
certainly, the industry is corrupt and not in it for any sort of cultural, artistic reasons unless it falls in their laps with lots of money making to be had. So I don't blame Paul for staying away from the major label game at all. There has to be some groundswell of new music or artists, some new grass roots force that grows popular on its own. Only then will the record labels, who are too slow to understand what's going on, come calling. otherwise, they stick with what they know makes money.
As for some personal demons he's carrying? Sure. "Trouble Boys" delved into it, with the self sabotage stuff, the lack of belief in themselves. But at this point, I'd think he'd stop worrying about expectations and what the critics/fans think. He has, to a certain extent, not given a damn, I guess. The basement recordings is his measure of control, doing it his way and not having some record label goon looking over his shoulder.
Whether or not he's got anything to say from a songwriting perspective, I dunno. Songs don't always have to be ones that have great significance or artistic meaning all the time. It's just rock and roll. I mean, it's kind of unfair to ask for another "Unsatisfied", or "Bastards of Young" or whatever.
Maybe he's still got some juice left to say something poignant to us all, about getting older, that we can all relate to.
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Post by FreeRider on Feb 26, 2022 9:41:40 GMT -5
sure, I'm not going to feel too bad for the older established bands who've made enough money to buy Hefty bags of cocaine back in the day (as opposed to artists who never got that big pay day), but still there are the economics that are affecting not just older bands, but the newer artists or fringe artists as well. And if the Atlantic article is saying that the music industry is reacting by pushing the older artists on the streaming platforms, well, the royalty rates still grossly are in the favor of the publishing and copyright owners over the artists' performance royalties and mechanical rights. And that is assuming you can get a high number of streams to generate any revenue. And at the same time, the industry is averse to pushing or getting behind the younger/newer artists. So it's really up to the artist to take care of their own business interests and it's going to be hard to break through with so many others out there trying to self promote on the social media sites and You Tube. The upside is, the artist is not beholden to the record label game with contractual obligations of "you owe the label 5 separate original works of music, and you agree to promote through touring" etc... So Paul might make some profits (won't be great though) in a crowd funded new album/CD or downloads in a DIY effort. A good bit of the costs maybe would be to actually have CD or vinyl albums pressed, and then shipping the stuff out to folks. Or he could bypass all of it and simply make it available again on Bandcamp or something as digital downloads. I guess it would depend upon what the financial goal would be and if there would be enough interest to hit the target, eg, $15,000? Are there enough fans to gin up $15,000? $20,000? More? I dunno. But it's a fun thought experiment! And who knows if Darren reads this and stuff and gets Paul inspired to do something like this. I mean, I kind of felt that the reason why Paul put out his own songbook was because a few of us here were talking about it. Coincidence? I dunno. and I'm not so sure how much he's sold but it's still for sale: www.amazon.com/Westerberg-Replacements-Guitar-Recorded-Versions/dp/1423492919
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