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Post by paulinetrouble on Jan 1, 2013 20:00:53 GMT -5
Chris is a class-A guy. I don't want to get in the middle of the supposed feud, but both of them can be my brothers. If the remarks were made around the time Paul got sober, he could have been on a dry drunk, which makes one grandiose and practically crazy...I am not one to pass judgement. Neither one has done anything to me, but I'd be mighty disappointed to find Paul is a jerk...: ( I know he's got to know that lots of great writers/musicians/artists are out there NOT able to earn a living doing what they love or being so well-rewarded for doing what he would be compelled to do anyway. There's LOTS of starving artists out there who are deserving of song royalties too. He may have borderline personality disorder as well...in which case, just look past what he said to what insecurities would have caused him to say what he did. (Yeah, I've had my share of therapy, for whatever good it does. ; )
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Post by paulinetrouble on Jan 1, 2013 20:09:36 GMT -5
LOVE All Shook Down. I can't listen to it right now, as it reminds me of a very secure time in my life. I could relate to everything on that album, as with all the rest. This was as deep and mournful as I can be.It was a comforting and reassuring album for me. Hmmmmm. Maybe I can TRY to play it again and see what happens. ; )
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Post by anarkissed on Jan 1, 2013 20:49:52 GMT -5
I always found it odd that there was ever any kind of question as to whether Chris Mars was "good" enough to play drums on Paul's songs...I liked his drumming...Certainly, in the really early days, you can see Paul is apparently some kind of complete original, maybe a great songwriter, with a unique voice; this guy is clearly going to be something important...Bob is pretty amazing - some kind of reckless go-for-broke amalgamation of pure thrash and classic rock...You're not sure if he's really hitting everything he's aiming for, or even cares; sometimes it's pretty friggin' incredible, sometimes it's just kinda weird, but he seems like the right lead for this band...Tommy? He's 12! He's pretty damn good...You're sure you couldn't have come anywhere close to something like that when you were 12...But, really, Chris is the only one you might think of as a real musician, and frankly, if he wasn't back there sort of unobtrusively holding this juggernaut together, and, in fact, giving it a pretty hard goose, you're not sure this whole thing would even fly...Maybe Paul wanted something different later on, but I don't think he's ever been really happy with any drummer he's ever had, because nobody can really quite play what he's hearing in his head - apparently not even Paul...
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Post by paulinetrouble on Jan 1, 2013 21:09:34 GMT -5
I agree, anarkissed. At the time, when it began, so to speak, it must have been magical; must have really hurt to watch that magic wane, or to feel under-appreciated. I think if Paul had had to deal with the drummers in Norfolk, Va, he may never have gotten anywhere. No record deal, no recognition, nada. It was a place where drummers either tried to play Metallica drum solos in hard-core funk metal bands. Revolving drummers. None dependable to be anywhere near sober. None who could keep a steady beat. The importance of Chris holding them all on the road musically in the early days when their sound was being developed is NOT to be overlooked. A tip of the hat to ya, Chris!
Hey, anarkissed! Happy New Year!
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Post by twicks on Jan 1, 2013 22:06:08 GMT -5
The Mats' implosion almost makes you wonder if we wouldn't have gotten more years/music out of them if they'd existed in today's marketplace instead.
Seems like bands at their level today (Wilco, Decemberists, Spoon, etc.) don't feel the same kind of make-or-break pressure...the death of the major labels has freed them up to exist for a lot longer with a lot less mass popularity. You don't really see bandleaders going solo as much these days — look at the Hold Steady, for example. Maybe they go off and do a solo album or two, then get back together and everything's kosher.
Every band/era is unique, and it's impossible to compare apples to apples between the late '80s/early '90s and now. For what it's worth, I wouldn't change anything about the Mats' story...
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Post by adamapple on Jan 3, 2013 14:18:34 GMT -5
well, Wilco had plentry of pressure applied as the record label rejected YHF, so they were able to get released for a paltry sum with the master tapes, and in a masterstroke get resigned by the very same label, via a subsidiary. they have managed their career pretty well, BUT, they only have 2 original members. I place them outside of your category due to that. I like em a lot, but it's purely Jeff's band. Jay was a great co-writer as Jeff grew, but once his writing confidence blossomed, Jay was toast, Sad, cause i thought they were an amazing team. Paul wanted to do a solo record label would not let him, so the issue was forced, they imploded. they needed to take a few years off regardless. they were perfect as they were, and broke up when it was right. wouldn't change a thing. time has shown a light on how important they all were to the mix. and chris fell apart just as much as paul, or tommy, or bob it was part of their group neurosis....god bless 'em, the lot!
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Post by raccoon on Jan 4, 2013 8:57:23 GMT -5
LOVE ASD! If you ever want to turn somebody onto the Mats this album is the one that actually does it. Play it without telling anybody who it is. Within a few minutes they will be going nuts trying to figure it out. It is a very likeable record to hear in the background. This one doesn't scare the casual listener the way an album like Stink almost always does. Once you get 'em hooked on ASD go with Hootenanny!! My 2 pennies...
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Post by paulinetrouble on Jan 9, 2013 0:30:20 GMT -5
I am SHOCKED! STINK was made just for me, or at least that's how it felt at the time...But I'm shocked that you'd turn them on to ASD first! Not Let It Be? Not Tim? (or, if your friend is a thrash fan, Sorry, Ma...) Maybe your friends have sophisticated taste. ASD seems like a Paul solo album to me. That album is deep, but a bit brooding and dark. Really, I am just speechless...; )
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Post by anarkissed on Jan 9, 2013 1:04:10 GMT -5
Yeah, it's always interesting to hear what albums people recommend for conversion...ASD would've been my last choice...I think Raccoon has an interesting, and plausible, theory for that choice, but I'd always thought if you didn't know Paul and/or the Replacements previously, you wouldn't have been too impressed with that album...Hell, I knew Paul and/or the Replacements previously, and I still wasn't too impressed with that album...I suppose a lot depends on your perception of the taste of whom you're trying to "turn on"...When my daughter was just starting to get into "punk rock" (by which I mean, Good Charlotte, Green Day, Blink 182, Simple Plan, and, if she was going "classic", The Ramones and The Sex Pistols) I gave her "Stink"...I never really got much of a response, though I noted she kept the CD, and lifted my vinyl copy of "Sorry Ma"...My son knew "14 Songs" and PTMM, but later surprised me by saying that out of all of the Mats and Westerberg material he'd heard secondhand, he preferred "Suicaine Gratification"...I've had people tell me that DTAS was "too low-fi" for them, and that "Hootenany" was "too mainstream"...
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Post by ggdfan25 on Jan 9, 2013 4:41:06 GMT -5
The Mats' implosion almost makes you wonder if we wouldn't have gotten more years/music out of them if they'd existed in today's marketplace instead. Seems like bands at their level today (Wilco, Decemberists, Spoon, etc.) don't feel the same kind of make-or-break pressure...the death of the major labels has freed them up to exist for a lot longer with a lot less mass popularity. You don't really see bandleaders going solo as much these days — look at the Hold Steady, for example. Maybe they go off and do a solo album or two, then get back together and everything's kosher. Every band/era is unique, and it's impossible to compare apples to apples between the late '80s/early '90s and now. For what it's worth, I wouldn't change anything about the Mats' story... The biggest problem here is that the Spoons, Wilco and Decemberists all suck... That's why it's not comparable
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creep66
First Class Scout
Posts: 119
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Post by creep66 on Jan 9, 2013 11:03:51 GMT -5
The biggest problem here is that the Spoons, Wilco and Decemberists all suck... That's why it's not comparable [/quote] Wilco used to be good, I still like their first 3 or 4 records.
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Post by raccoon on Jan 10, 2013 10:48:43 GMT -5
Hey don't get me wrong I love Stink and everything else. As someone pointed out - it depends on the audience you are trying to 'convert'. I am 45. Not a lot of my friends are going to embrace a song like'Dope Smoking Moron'. Happytown and Nobody are much much much more accessable to the average listener. Of course Let It Be is the greatest Mats record ever though!!
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Post by anarkissed on Jan 10, 2013 21:23:14 GMT -5
Here's my handy reference guide to which albums to use for purposes of "conversion", geared to the taste of the person you wish to convert:
- Bratty young kids who think punk started around 2009, and who like to complain about Green Day "selling out": Sorry Ma...
- Old school hardcore fans who think Minor Threat were the greatest band of all time: Stink
- Drunks: Hootenany
- Rigidly self-righteous indie types: Let It Be
- Cerebral alternative rock fans who nevertheless don't care too much about the "quality of production" and "sonic clarity", as long as the songs are well-written, and girls: Tim
- More mainstream classic rock fans who do care about the "quality of production" and "sonic clarity", but want enough ragged edges to feel like they're still cool: PTMM
- People who like to listen to the "All 80's" station at work: DTAS
- Introverts, those recovering from addictions, Manic Depressives, OCD'ers, people who liked Rod Stewart's first two or three solo albums, but hated everything from "Tonight's The Night" on: ASD
- People who like to read a lot: 14 Songs
- James Taylor fans who still kinda wish James Taylor rocked a little more: Eventually
- Anybody still trying to get through a divorce, Nick Drake fans, grown women in their mid-30's who still see their college years as the best time of their lives, grown men who dropped out of college even though they were really smart, and regret having done so: Suicaine Gratification
- Anybody who would appreciate a mix tape that had solo Keith, T.Rex, stuff from Blonde On Blonde, and Warron Zevon on it: S/M
- Anybody who ever recorded a bunch of really good songs they had written very quickly by themselves on a boom box, and had tell people tell them: "These are really good! You should take these into a decent studio and do something with them!", but never did: CFMT
- Dead blues guys: Dead Man Shake
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Post by brianlux on Jan 11, 2013 1:44:50 GMT -5
Although I may not agree with all of the above, anarkissed, what you put together there was damn good reading, entertaining, funny as hell, often right on and well said. Good job!
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Post by TomT on Jan 11, 2013 7:41:42 GMT -5
Yes, ver funny. And I do fall into the PTMM category you outlined.
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Post by FreeRider on Jan 11, 2013 9:58:56 GMT -5
ha!, nice guide! And I would also fall into the PTMM category of conversion
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Post by dee on Jan 11, 2013 11:04:31 GMT -5
Whoa Anarkissed!
Well done Sir!
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Post by paulinetrouble on Jan 11, 2013 18:51:30 GMT -5
Yeah! Nice work in general! But Hootenanny and Sorry Ma were my first two, and I'm not sure what that says about me. (And I know a lot of male "girls"...haha! ; )
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Post by anarkissed on Jan 11, 2013 20:52:18 GMT -5
I said "and girls"...I couldn't think of any corresponding personality type who would be persuaded by "Folker"...
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Post by bigbak on Jan 13, 2013 2:40:34 GMT -5
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