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Post by ClamsCasino on May 22, 2024 19:36:22 GMT -5
Stasium’s mix confirms Jim Dickinson’s later stories about how he had to cobble together Paul’s vocals from multiple takes for PTMM.
In almost every track on Tim, Stasium has a section where he’s chosen a different, unused take to edit in.
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Post by con on May 23, 2024 22:25:33 GMT -5
Stasium’s mix confirms Jim Dickinson’s later stories about how he had to cobble together Paul’s vocals from multiple takes for PTMM. In almost every track on Tim, Stasium has a section where he’s chosen a different, unused take to edit in. Haven’t noticed this—please elaborate! Which tracks, sections, etc.?
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Jer
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Post by Jer on May 25, 2024 20:37:27 GMT -5
Stasium’s mix confirms Jim Dickinson’s later stories about how he had to cobble together Paul’s vocals from multiple takes for PTMM. In almost every track on Tim, Stasium has a section where he’s chosen a different, unused take to edit in. I never really understood the significance of this. Comping a vocal for from multiple takes is a very common, universal practice. Not comping happens I'm sure, but it's the exception, especially in the digital age. It's almost never a single-take vocal. Not just vocals either. Maybe JD didn't do it much back then.
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bobb
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Post by bobb on May 26, 2024 12:43:10 GMT -5
Stasium’s mix confirms Jim Dickinson’s later stories about how he had to cobble together Paul’s vocals from multiple takes for PTMM. In almost every track on Tim, Stasium has a section where he’s chosen a different, unused take to edit in. Stasium used the same vocals that were used by Tommy Erdelyi in the original not from unused takes to edit in from various vocal takes. Stasium did not make any choices as you suggest. Though it does seem a “cobble” was done originally by Erdelyi in his original mix. Stasium described this on Vish Khanna’s Kreative Kontrol #803 (Bob Mehr, Ed Stasium, Jason Jones) and I recall reading and hearing this elsewhere too. Backing vocals and other things vocally were only brought up in the mix by Stasium he was not punching in and cobbling things. Have a listen to the episode where Stasium mentions it early on but they delve deeper later on.
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Post by curmudgeonman on May 27, 2024 13:19:10 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^
This is my take as well on Stasium's approach to remixing Tim. In various interviews I have watched, he stated that he did not mess with the original tracks as far as editing them, or deleting/substituting tracks. He did state that he brought up stuff buried low in the mix to more prominent levels, and of course EQ, reverb/echo, compression, panning, etc. But I do not doubt that Erdelyi used various vocal tracks to come up with an entire lead vocal in a song, a fairly common practice in the industry.
Here is a video of David Lee Roth talking to Joe Rogan about this technique on guitar solos.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on May 27, 2024 18:09:45 GMT -5
Yea Dave's not wrong, but it's not always a writing tool like that (though it certainly can be). It's more often similar performances with more subtle differences - like, "this word was flat on that take, though the rest of the line was really good, so let's take that word from the next take." Some takes have better pitch, better emotion, whatever, but they're often pretty close to one another.
Paul often ad-libbed too. I think I read that he didn't have lyrics written down for "Hold My Life" so that was just a few takes of random stuff they comped together. I'm sure he had some idea of what he was going to do, at least for the pre-choruses and choruses, but the verses feel very random (in a very cool way).
Dave's also not wrong about having to go back and relearn the solo. One of the drawbacks of comping like that is that the part can feel a bit disjointed, in a non-definable sort of way. So when I've "written" a solo that way, I'll think, yeah the parts are cool but it sounds cut together, so I'll take a couple days, learn the comped solo, then re-cut it over the comped one, ideally without the need to comp, or with way less comping. Same solo but it sounds a lot more natural and fluid.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Jun 5, 2024 14:14:04 GMT -5
Stasium used the same vocals that were used by Tommy Erdelyi in the original not from unused takes to edit in from various vocal takes. Stasium did not make any choices as you suggest. Though it does seem a “cobble” was done originally by Erdelyi in his original mix. Stasium described this on Vish Khanna’s Kreative Kontrol #803 (Bob Mehr, Ed Stasium, Jason Jones) and I recall reading and hearing this elsewhere too. Backing vocals and other things vocally were only brought up in the mix by Stasium he was not punching in and cobbling things. Have a listen to the episode where Stasium mentions it early on but they delve deeper later on. [/quote] I mean, I’m not about to sit down and a/b everything and give you a long list of time stamps, but there are different takes cut in to nearly every song. Not just buried vocals that were brought up in the mix. A/B Nowhere is My Home and you’ll hear an example of what I’m talking about in the very end of the song.
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bobb
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Post by bobb on Jun 5, 2024 18:59:20 GMT -5
Fair enough. The Sons of No One: Rare & Unreleased is anything goes. I thought the conversation was about the Stasium mix of the original album. For that it isn’t my opinion it’s what Stasium said about the Tim (Ed Stasium Mix) tracks for the 11 Tim songs (disc 1 / LP).
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