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Post by thematsarealive on Jul 8, 2018 0:47:27 GMT -5
Q: I was wondering if they [the Replacements] had an influence on you as a songwriter or the music you make?
A: I kind of wish they did because there are so many comparisons to us. I have to be honest, I really didn't like the Replacements when I was into punk rock music and didn't listen to them. I mean, I like the sound of it... I think my appreciation for R.E.M. and the Beatles had more to do with it because I really wasn't aware of Soul Asylum and the Replacements and those bands. I mean I knew about them and I actually saw them live and stuff but just didn't get it and didn't like it that much.
Interesting interview, especially remembering PW talking about running into Kurt in an elevator in NY during the 13 songs tour and not saying anything to each other. Interesting to think about it since they were two very influential bands with very different outcomes. I'm assuming Kurt saw Soul Asylum live and not the Replacements.
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Post by thematsarealive on Jul 8, 2018 0:53:12 GMT -5
Listening to "Country Boy" now and feeling quite satisfied that the Replacements didn't get as big and Paul has had such a great career in the years since.
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Post by dee on Jul 8, 2018 4:37:16 GMT -5
Nirvana was the 90's version of The Replacements.Though I gravitated toward Pavement after the mats broke up. Though I love all 3.
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Post by curmudgeonman on Jul 8, 2018 17:26:55 GMT -5
Interesting interview, especially remembering PW talking about running into Kurt in an elevator in NY during the 13 songs tour and not saying anything to each other. Interesting to think about it since they were two very influential bands with very different outcomes. I'm assuming Kurt saw Soul Asylum live and not the Replacements. The infamous incident when the two were on the same elevator was in San Francisco at the Phoenix Hotel; Paul was living there while recording 14 Songs and Kurt & Courtney were living there as well. I remember reading an anecdote from some SF rag that some amused locals would watch the two pass each other in the lobby, the two were completely aware of each other, but not acknowledging one at all. In a later interview, Courtney recalled that time, and she admitted that Cobain was well aware of the Replacements comparisons/influence; in another interview she stated the Mats were the absolute real deal, they had " Huge Respect Fame"- total credibility, something Cobain has been chasing after all his career. Westerberg never liked Nirvana or Cobain. He likened them to metal music, feeling they had no swing whatsoever, and he has a point (Cobain was known to get depressed that part of his fan base were heavy metal fans). I liked the Nevermind album when it first came out shortly after the Mats broke up, but still, to me at the time, I felt Nirvana was copping elements from the Mats in a glossier well produced product.
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Post by anarkissed on Jul 9, 2018 22:14:39 GMT -5
To this day, I have never heard Kurt Cobain mention The Replacements at all. Except for this reference, whicj seems to only be a response to a direct question. I think any link between them at all has always been that a band like Nirvana could not have broken through to the mainstream without bands like The Mats building up a significant underground following that made the corporate world start thinking there might be an audience for this kinda thing...As far as being an influence on them musically, I just don't hear it...Totally different approach to music and lyrics...As far as Paul not liking them, I always get the feeling that he never really liked anybody after Rod Stewart went solo, but occasionally humored more modern bands just because he liked the guys in it personally...
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Post by thematsarealive on Jul 11, 2018 19:37:12 GMT -5
To this day, I have never heard Kurt Cobain mention The Replacements at all. Except for this reference, whicj seems to only be a response to a direct question. I think any link between them at all has always been that a band like Nirvana could not have broken through to the mainstream without bands like The Mats building up a significant underground following that made the corporate world start thinking there might be an audience for this kinda thing...As far as being an influence on them musically, I just don't hear it...Totally different approach to music and lyrics...As far as Paul not liking them, I always get the feeling that he never really liked anybody after Rod Stewart went solo, but occasionally humored more modern bands just because he liked the guys in it personally... I agree completely about the mainstream connection and if the Nirvana guys liked the Replacements by the time they were getting big the Mats were putting out All Shook Down, which couldn't have been more different than Nevermind at the time. I know Michael Azzerad wrote a Nirvana bio and I believe Our Band Could Be Your Life. He said Kurt Cobain was aware of the Mats but didn't care for them. I'm pretty sure Dave Grohl has talked about liking them as well as Husker Du and Courtney Love had more to say about the Mats. Paul's opinion on Nirvana and Kurt seemed to differ based on the interview I read. He at one point said it was such a great loss of talent when Kurt died and in other interviews said he didn't like the sludgy-ness and overnight success of grunge groups.
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Post by dee on Jul 12, 2018 1:21:07 GMT -5
Maybe like Lou Reed,who claimed Lou Reed was a character different than himself,Westerberg will have a take or reaction that is more of a front or a pose or just a joke when it comes to his opinion on other artists or music.Like when he ripped Ryan Adams then later said he meant it in a pro wrestling interview way more than being serious.Westerberg has explained how it comes off more inflammatory in interviews even though it's just an off the cuff response.I'm sure he loves what he claims he does,but he may have a broader appreciation of artists than he lets on.
Both PW and Cobain wore their influences on their sleeve,but maybe they were championing some things that gave them credibility or needed to be unearthed and kept other likes or influences closer to the vest as taste makers will.I know if either one of them covered or name checked an artist it was often well worth taking the time to check that artist out.
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Post by dee on Jul 12, 2018 1:40:35 GMT -5
I think John Lennon,PW and Kurt Cobain have similar musical auras.They were amused by unconventional wordplay yet had a gift for melody and they conveyed deeply felt universal sentiments. They also drew witty and abstract art and had their own fashion sense.Spokesmen of a generation types who didn't suffer fools lightly.
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Post by jimmyrock on Jul 12, 2018 6:23:20 GMT -5
I think John Lennon,PW and Kurt Cobain.... Spokesmen of a generation types who didn't suffer fools lightly. what? PW is spokesman for a generation? he was a rather narrow influence with no where near just the basic the familarity the other two guys had in their times, regardless of whether you consider them spokespeople or not.
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Post by FreeRider on Jul 12, 2018 11:07:11 GMT -5
having the label of "being a spokesman for a generation" is an awfully mean thing to place upon someone! that's a lot of pressure, scrutiny, and expectations to place upon the artist.
It reminds me of PW's quote about people coming to him, looking for answers in his music: "I think it's pretty apparent that I'm just as lost as anyone else."
Regardless, I liked some of Nirvana's tunes, but never really got into them. Moreover, I don't know if it's even important that Cobain was influenced by the Mats or not. If he was, great. And if not, that's okay too. The Mats have received acknowledgements from other bands and that's okay with me.
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Post by FreeRider on Jul 12, 2018 12:15:33 GMT -5
Found another good quote regarding the "spokesperson" thing. Here's another Paul quote about expectations placed upon him.
Inside the book - a gift from a fan - is an inscription that reads "To Paul, who saved my life."
Westerberg shakes his head and laughs when he reads it aloud.
"It's a horrible feeling," he says ruefully. "I almost think 'God - I saved you? Can you save me?"
Pop Culture Press magazine, Interview By Rachel Leibrock
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Post by Hagbard on Jul 12, 2018 20:48:28 GMT -5
I can sometimes hear The Mats influence on Nirvana, a song like On A Plain for instance. I remember their old manager being interviewed in the ‘Color me Obssessed’ documentary, saying something along the lines of, “We thought, let’s just be as big as The Replacements, we worshipped Paul Westerberg and saw them on Saturday night live and thought the world got it....” or something like that. She also spoke about if you put the Mats and Husker Du in a blender, you’d get 90% of the Seattle sound. I thought what she had to say was interesting. A song like ‘Go’ for example, I think you could say The Pixies copped some of their sound from a song like that, and they influenced Nirvana.... I can definitely hear the Mats influence on the music scene from the 90s on as a whole, with their early stuff tending to remind me of the early 90s alternative boom, with their later stuff reminding me of Jeff Tweedy, Ryan Adams and some of the other alt country groups. Take Me Down To The Hospital or Color Me Impressed could easily have found a place on the Singles soundtrack, while Achin To Be or Sadly Beautiful wouldn’t sound out of place on some early 00s compilation imo. Seems The Mats were simultaneously ahead of and behind the times....😆
Anyway, yeah I can hear an influence.
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Post by raccoon on Jul 12, 2018 21:08:48 GMT -5
I remember a couple of rumors which circulated (probably mostly on this board) about Nirvana and The Mats/Paul. I think they have both been discounted but I'll resurrect the dead carcasses anyway...
Rumor #1) Nirvana was so influenced by The Replacements that they named their smash hit album 'Nevermind' in honor of the Mat's song of the same title. Never seen any proof of this but I guess it is possible.
Rumor # 2) Paul wrote 'World Class Fad' with Kurt in mind. This would have been during one of Kurt's annoying 'it's rough being a rock star' phases. Paul's lyrics do seem to fit this theory to a large degree: "If you want it that bad Be a world class fad Remember leave a trail of crumbs If you want it that bad You're a world class fad Remember where you started from Don't be sad You're a world class fad You wax poetic about things pathetic As long as you look so cute Believe these hills are starting to roll Believe these stars are starting to shoot If you want it that bad Be a world class fad"
I'm pretty sure that Paul never publicly stated that the song was in any way about Kurt. But hey, who knows?
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Post by Hagbard on Jul 12, 2018 21:56:00 GMT -5
I remember a couple of rumors which circulated (probably mostly on this board) about Nirvana and The Mats/Paul. I think they have both been discounted but I'll resurrect the dead carcasses anyway... Rumor #1) Nirvana was so influenced by The Replacements that they named their smash hit album 'Nevermind' in honor of the Mat's song of the same title. Never seen any proof of this but I guess it is possible. Rumor # 2) Paul wrote 'World Class Fad' with Kurt in mind. This would have been during one of Kurt's annoying 'it's rough being a rock star' phases. Paul's lyrics do seem to fit this theory to a large degree: "If you want it that bad Be a world class fad Remember leave a trail of crumbs If you want it that bad You're a world class fad Remember where you started from Don't be sad You're a world class fad You wax poetic about things pathetic As long as you look so cute Believe these hills are starting to roll Believe these stars are starting to shoot If you want it that bad Be a world class fad" I'm pretty sure that Paul never publicly stated that the song was in any way about Kurt. But hey, who knows? I think I read an interview with Paul where he said that Kurt thought it was written about him and that Paul felt bad about it or something or other. Apparently, according to the interview, Paul wrote it about himself, but it was after Kurt passed.... maybe he felt bad? I don’t know....
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Post by anarkissed on Jul 12, 2018 21:56:27 GMT -5
I thought "World Class Fad" was about Tommy...
Nobody gets to decide if they are or are not the "voice of a generation"...Other people make that decision for you...Sorry...I know it's not fair...I'd say the only people who deserved that designation were people who never wanted it...But I think Dylan, Lennon, and Cobain might have at one point...Then got pissed when they realized how much goofy shit came with that...I feel pretty sure Paul didn't...And although he certainly never approached the wide cultural influence that any one of those three did, he still kinda was, for a very select much smaller group...He was just enough older than me that I could look up to him as an older, cooler brother type, but close enough in age that he touched on a lot of the same reference ponts, like AM Gold, or early Black Sabbath, or KISS, or your dad driving one of those big old cars with fins, or Vietnam...I'm sure it was sometimes, maybe mostly disturbing, to have people tell you "you saved my life" or whatever...Still think, to an artist, that was probably better than "What is this shit?"
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Post by dee on Jul 12, 2018 21:57:41 GMT -5
I think John Lennon,PW and Kurt Cobain.... Spokesmen of a generation types who didn't suffer fools lightly. what? PW is spokesman for a generation? he was a rather narrow influence with no where near just the basic the familarity the other two guys had in their times, regardless of whether you consider them spokespeople or not. I wasn't clear enough with what I wrote.I said spokesman of a generation types(that in itself is an abstract,not a literal analogy),not that Westerberg was that.I was referring to the nature of songs he was writing.Mainly on Let It be and Tim.The next album started off with I.O.U.(Nothing) and that was pretty much it for the out and out anthemic nature of his work.When asked about his first solo album when some people thought he might be the next Springsteen PW said it takes too much work to do that. I don't think an artist needs to be popular at all to be the spokesman of their generation.It's not a political position,the art itself is a document of the times they live in and what holds up down the line makes them a spokesman for their generation. In the Replacements PW was ahead of his time,not of his time,with the masses.Nirvana hit at the right time on the ground work paved by bands like Husker Du and The Replacements.Those two bands were the early crash test dummies for the major labels to figure out how to market that style of,not only music,but band.Once they coined the genre as "alternative" instead of college rock and played up the bands antics instead of trying to change them,it worked.The Beatles also hit at the right time and their image was very calculated and cultivated. Westerberg has mentioned being too late or too early for his music to break through. He wasn't going to connect during the 80's with Michael Jackson,Prince,Madonna,Bruce Springsteen and hair metal selling hundreds of millions of albums and The Replacements not embracing the MTV generation or willing to play the industry game or to be groomed for stratospheric success.The critics loved them and so did the fans in the underground scene. The Replacements influence was on the future of music,and their credibility and earnestness and humor has changed the approach of what many bands consider success. Not many musicians want to be dubbed the spokesman of their generation in their prime.Bob Dylan was the first,I believe,to get that tag and he didn't want it. Maybe Springsteen is that,Jimi Hendrix was trying to make people conscious of positive change.Bob Marley.John Lennon.Kurt Cobain used his spotlight to support women and gays. I wish more musicians these days would aspire to be considered spokesmen of their generation,because it's a bland industry pumping out bland artists.
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Post by anarkissed on Jul 12, 2018 22:21:31 GMT -5
I kinda felt like I knew what you meant...He was that type...Didn't mean he wanted to be...Didn't mean a whole lot of other people thought that...But there was definitely a group who did...I think it might be helpful to set aside arguments about who sold more albums, or concert tickets, or had more radio airplay. or was on the cover of PEOPLE, or won more American Music Awards, or whose t-shirts Wal-Mart carries...These are mathematically, statistically verifiable facts, sheer numbers that really cannot be argued, unless I want to descend into the abyss of arguing the methodology or ethics of Price Waterhouse or Nielsen...Did he make people feel things on a really deep level?...Well, two or three, that I know of...
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Post by FreeRider on Jul 13, 2018 9:30:24 GMT -5
I get what you're saying now, thanks for clarifying. But my take on it is this: instead of using the term "spokesperson", I just prefer artist. To me, that definition is much different from "rock star" or just a "star". Like Paul had said, "You don't go to LA to be an artist, you go there to be a star." Which got Tommy all pissed off, I thought, because Tommy had just moved to LA, ha ha....anyway... Because when a musician or performer achieves a high level of mastery of the form, it becomes art when it holds the mirror up to you. And you have the shock of recognition. Certain people are capable of producing work that makes you go, "Whoa, they're talking about my life." These people are artists who are singing the soundtrack to your life. They seemingly know exactly how you're feeling, what you're thinking about and we're all identifying with it. They hit upon those universal feelings and are able to articulate it and express it in ways maybe we can't. Not everyone can do it. dee wrote: I agree with that. What's popular isn't always art. I mean, fer crying out loud, Chuck Berry's highest ranking hit was "My Ding a Ling"! A stupid novelty song, when he had "Maybelline" and "No Money Down" and "Sweet LIttle Sixteen", etc in his catalog. But it's the songs, the work that endures with the passage of time. Think about it, some of these Mats tunes are over 25 years old! And yet, this razor sharp stanza endures: the ones who love us best are the ones we'll lay to rest and visit their graves on holidays at best the ones who love us least are the ones we'll die to please if it's any consolation I don't begin to understand them...it's timeless; there will always be a sense of alienation, of being an outsider, of staring out at the dark fields of the republic rolling on through a restless night, of uncertainty and things not going well. This still gets a reaction for anyone going thru that feeling and for those who've gotten past it but still remember how it felt. And PW and the Mats captured the zeitgeist of the early 1980's recession, but it's also universal. That song isn't frozen in time as it can still apply to today or the past 10 years. And if you still aren't moved by it, well, in the words of PW, "then, fuck ya!"
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Post by leftofthedial09 on Jul 13, 2018 14:42:24 GMT -5
Dang, interesting. I'm not sure where the Nirvana / Mats influence was built up, but I had always thought that was the case. Sounds like that's not accurate.
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Post by jimmyrock on Jul 13, 2018 20:15:02 GMT -5
what? PW is spokesman for a generation? he was a rather narrow influence with no where near just the basic the familarity the other two guys had in their times, regardless of whether you consider them spokespeople or not. .When asked about his first solo album when some people thought he might be the next Springsteen PW said it takes too much work to do that. I think thats just a good line he threw out, he would love to have that success but hates the thought of it more hence the give up...if he really just doesnt want to put the work in well thats a shame to us fans, i would love to hear a good PW record, what was the last good one he put out? Mono?
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