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Post by FreeRider on Jul 20, 2018 8:58:48 GMT -5
I know it's the summer and it's quiet and this place is just trying to gin up some conversation (thanks to anarkissed and raccoon and others trying to keep this place alive, it is appreciated on my end) since Paul has forsaken us for the time being....
and I know this is gonna sound kind of flip but---I really don't care whether Kurt was or wasn't. For me, the Mats get enough validation from their peers or by younger bands who overtly state the case. Kurt not being influenced by them or not liking them doesn't mean much to me.
And funny, while I like some of Nirvana's stuff and Foo Fighters, I just can't get into them completely because I just don't connect to their songs the way I do with the Mats or Paul. I have no idea what the hell Dave Grohl is singing about on a lot of his songs, it's too abstract with lots of imagery but nothing concrete. What I like is the sound, I guess. And Kurt had a knack for melody and some tasty riffs here and there, but I have zero emotional connection to the lyrics.
And yeah, Paul says a lot of stuff that I take with a grain of salt. "We rocked like murder." True---only when you wanted to.
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Jul 20, 2018 11:07:57 GMT -5
I thought Nirvana had everything - great songs, a great singer, some great rock and roll drama, and that one incredible, defining record that hit at the perfect time to change everything. Their curse was that they got way too huge and that breeds contempt in people. The alternative guys were pissed because they'd been at it for years, the metal guys were pissed because it was the final nail in the coffin to their moment in the sun, and Nirvana's early fans were pissed because Nirvana wasn't "their" band anymore.
As I've said, you like what you like, and Nirvana wasn't everyone's favorite, but few bands had the songs, the hooks, the punk side, the pop side, those powerful vocals, the production, and the balls to be themselves when so many put so much weight on their shoulders because of their success. It's very rare when all those stars align.
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Post by anarkissed on Jul 20, 2018 13:29:57 GMT -5
Perhaps this is an overstatement, but, by this point, I'm starting to think that if you are a "modern rock" band or musician (by which I guess I mean, anything after 1994), you at some point went through both R.E.M. and Nirvana, at least in the way you view your work, your work is viewed, and in the way the world views you. Doesn't mean you sound like them, or even liked them, or ever listened to them, they just loom that large in that culture, like The Beatles or Elvis did in the past.
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Post by anarkissed on Jul 20, 2018 13:32:20 GMT -5
I know it's the summer and it's quiet and this place is just trying to gin up some conversation I think everyone has done pretty well at keeping it on a relatively articulate level. I could've thought of a lot more trivial goofy bullshit to discuss than this. What's your favorite Paul hairstyle?
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Post by jimmyrock on Jul 20, 2018 19:37:58 GMT -5
Perhaps this is an overstatement, but, by this point, I'm starting to think that if you are a "modern rock" band or musician (by which I guess I mean, anything after 1994), you at some point went through both R.E.M. and Nirvana, at least in the way you view your work, your work is viewed, and in the way the world views you. Doesn't mean you sound like them, or even liked them, or ever listened to them, they just loom that large in that culture, like The Beatles or Elvis did in the past. so yeah, if i was a musician or a band writing music and having lived through these years i dont know how you dont say you were influenced even by osmosis as someone else said from these bands , you heard the music, but I keep coming back to the Mats and many just didnt hear them...
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Post by FreeRider on Jul 21, 2018 8:40:55 GMT -5
I think everyone has done pretty well at keeping it on a relatively articulate level. I could've thought of a lot more trivial goofy bullshit to discuss than this. What's your favorite Paul hairstyle? Twin/Tone has video of a concert of you guys from 81 on their web site. Have you had a chance to see that?
paul westerberg: No. Is that the one where my hair looks like Frankenstein?busblog.tonypierce.com/2008/04/as-you-know-replacements-had-four-of.html
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Post by FreeRider on Jul 21, 2018 8:44:43 GMT -5
.... As I've said, you like what you like, and Nirvana wasn't everyone's favorite, but few bands had the songs, the hooks, the punk side, the pop side, those powerful vocals, the production, and the balls to be themselves when so many put so much weight on their shoulders because of their success. It's very rare when all those stars align. Ain't that the truth. They caught lightning in a bottle. Neil Young talked about having a hit album with Harvest but said it was purely an accident, and that's the way it should be. You don't go out and try writing a hit album or song, he said, but the clouds parted, the sun came thru and everything went right and it became a hit album for him. He intimated that you couldn't try and replicate it, that to force or try to write a hit song or album was not natural or something
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Post by raccoon on Jul 21, 2018 18:17:57 GMT -5
and I know this is gonna sound kind of flip but---I really don't care whether Kurt was or wasn't. For me, the Mats get enough validation from their peers or by younger bands who overtly state the case. Kurt not being influenced by them or not liking them doesn't mean much to me. I'm with you on this! The whole discussion makes me want to reach for some cherry flavored antacid.
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Jer
Beagle Scout
Posts: 1,182
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Post by Jer on Jul 24, 2018 7:07:00 GMT -5
and I know this is gonna sound kind of flip but---I really don't care whether Kurt was or wasn't. For me, the Mats get enough validation from their peers or by younger bands who overtly state the case. Kurt not being influenced by them or not liking them doesn't mean much to me. I'm with you on this! The whole discussion makes me want to reach for some cherry flavored antacid. Certainly your prerogative, but even though there's not much behind the Cobain connection to the mats, it's interesting to explore the connections and comparisons to other artists (Nirvana, Ryan Adams, Keith Richards, GNR, whatever). I don't see it as a quest for vindication - more of a study of lineage and the effect bands have on the bands that follow. It's more interesting than "What's your favorite Replacements song?" or Paul's teeth, probably especially so for those who are into the other bands in the discussion and maybe have some insight into what was going on at the time.
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Post by FreeRider on Jul 25, 2018 11:26:52 GMT -5
No, not vindication....there is no right or wrong here. But Validation? Sure. To me, for those who are straining or want there to be an influence, implicit in their desire is some sort of deference to the Mats from another artist and affirming the feelings and opinions of some Mats fans.
again, I knew it was going to sound kind of snarky and said as much when I wrote it, but I have no venom behind it. As you've said before, we all have our likes and dislikes.
For me? I never once had my skin tingle at a Nirvana or Foo Fighter tune. I liked the sound and all and some of their tunes but the Mats were the ones that gave me the chills and a emotional connection to some of their songs. And I've got friends who listen to the Mats and don't get it, see nothing special about it or PW's songs, so it goes both ways! And I get that Kurt didn't gravitate towards the Mats, it's all good.
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Post by Veets on Aug 5, 2018 20:22:42 GMT -5
Well, Paul did copy the Nirvana logo...
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Post by towilmusic on May 7, 2019 8:20:55 GMT -5
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Post by bigbak on Jun 5, 2019 11:59:53 GMT -5
Never thought the 'Mats had any influence on Nirvana - two different ships in the same harbor. I also never thought of Paul as one of the spokesman for a generation type" - always pegged Paul as more of a Brian Wilson type, you know, the "leave me alone so I can create my music" sort.
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