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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 5, 2004 21:36:09 GMT -5
Parental Bragging... My daughter is doing a report on Virginia Wolfe and Sylvia Plath, and is using Crackle and Drag as part of her presentation. And for what its worth, she picked out the authors before knowing what C/D was about.. I had to point out the coincidence. I haven't seen the presentation, but its somehow now multi media. Maybe a few 11th graders will be turned onto CFMT. Huh? She was going to use Crackle and Drag as part of her Plath/Woolf report (I hope she spelled Woolf's name correctly) without knowing what the song was about? And even if she was aware that Crackle and Drag was about Plath, what possible insight could it add to a report? What is going on in high school these days? Plath and Woolf get "multi-media presentations" with mood music that may or may not have anything to do with the subject at hand? I guess popping in a CD is easier than actually writing a well-researched paper. Do other kids play their Eminem CDs for the class when they're assigned to do a "presentation" on Hemingway or Wilde?
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 5, 2004 0:20:09 GMT -5
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 16, 2004 1:18:49 GMT -5
CC: By the way, what do you think about the drums on ASD? Maybe "hi-hat" was the drum I was describing. I like the way the snare cracks on ASD, but do I know what you mean when you say that "it sounds like the there's only one drum (and not a particularly pleasant one) playing one beat too loud throughout the song." It's a pretty sparse sound and there's not a lot going on, so if the sound of that snare bugs you then it's probably really going to bug you. I like it and I think it's a big improvement over the drum sound on a lot of earlier Replacements records. For instance, I always thought that the drum sound on PTMM was pretty bad. But I'll take a real drummer over a drum machine any day. There's definitely something about a real drummer (one who can actually play) that makes a song come alive. That Jesus and Mary Chain example was a good one. I love their music, but the drum machine gets really monotonous and kills a lot of the potential energy that's in those songs. It's the same with Paul. I listen to something like "Making Me Go" and, as great as it is, it sounds dead next to most anything he's done with a real drummer.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 15, 2004 14:27:46 GMT -5
This discussion has been reduced to mere semantics bullshit at this point. I'm not sure why you think because it's a one take approach that it's meant to recreate the sound of a live band. Of course he's trying to reproduce the sound of a live band playing together. That's pretty much the definition of recorded music (well, pre-Sgt. Pepper I guess, if you really want to quibble).
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 15, 2004 0:46:49 GMT -5
I think that part of the sloppiness found in PW songs, is based more on laziness, than a contrived effort to appear rough around the edges. Judging by the interviews he's given, it sounds like he gets easily bored with his songs. I have a feeling, that once he knows what song he wants to do, he just has to hit record and go (I'm sure he probably already has his gear setup ie. mics, compressors and other effects, so once he's ready to record, it's probably fairly quick). I'll chime in to agree with GtrPlyr (again). Laziness or boredom is probably more of a factor than anything else. Although Paul does like to repeat the "beauty is in the flaws" mantra so often that I begin to wonder how many times he's made an effort to contrive those flaws. For instance, I never really bought the story about the tape running out on three different Stereo tracks. And just to be clear this time: I AM AGREEING WITH GTRPLYR. No reason for anyone else to jump down my throat. And yeah DaveinDK, I understand what a "take" means, and I'm sure Paul wings a lot of stuff off the top of his head when he's laying down tracks, and yes, that does qualify the individual tracks for "first take" status. I was only responding to GtrPlyr's point about the guitar and vocals on some tunes sounding like they were recorded separately. All I said, in a nutshell, was that we can't take the "one take" claim too literally when we know that Paul is recording everything himself. We can't even really assume that he's recording a single guitar and vocals simultaneously. In other words, that first take sound is inherently contrived, because it's meant to recreate the sound of a live spontaneous band, and obviously that can't be done spontaneously in one take when a single person has to go back and record each instrument separately.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 14, 2004 14:27:50 GMT -5
Clams, man, you've been thick as a brick on this topic for months now....and if you weren't so goddamn pompous in most of your posts, I'd just let it slide. Maybe you don't understand what one "take" means. This is pretty funny to me, because I was actually agreeing with what GtrPlyr was saying. But I guess I'm so "goddamn pompous" about it that people have to take sides and attack me anyway. I've been thick as a brick on this topic for months? Believe it or not I do understand the concept of multi-tracking. I don't see how anything I've written has indicated otherwise. Oh sorry, that last sentence was pretty goddamn pompous. You really think Paul labors over every track playing them over and over and over agin until he nails it perfectly? You think he charts this stuff out? You think he rehearses them for more than 15 minutes before he records them? I'd say, he keeps pretty much the first or second take OF EACH TRACK. I'd also be willing to bet that on some tracks he dosen't even know waht he's gonna play until the red light goes on. Then I guess you haven't heard the demos (a couple of which had performances that were further honed, polished or altered for the final album) or seen the "Wild and Lethal" recording session on CFMT. Yeah, there's a lot of off-the-cuff stuff going on; it's all sloppy as hell and a lot of the vocals sound like crap, but it is possible that that's a bit of an illusion. Clearly there's more than a few tunes on the past four basement albums that have been labored over, despite the raw production values. There's nothing "first take" about Crackle and Drag alt. version, for instance. There are three versions of that one song alone.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 14, 2004 3:09:49 GMT -5
1 or 2 takes doesn't imply every instrument being recorded at the same time Clams . Obviously PW has recorded everything himself on the past few albums... I'm refering to PW recording a limited number of takes per instrument, and finishing a song while the song is fresh. To paraphrase PW "The first take is usually the best take..." I don't know why you're rolling your eyes at me. You're the one who said, "This contradicts Paul's assertions that he usually records things in 1 or 2 takes, with him playing guitar and singing at the same time. If he really records this way, there should be some bleeding of guitar into the vocal mike, and vice versa, giving the tracks a more natural, and live sound." I was only responding to what you said. Obviously we all know that he records everything himself and that he's not really doing it all at the same time. That was my point. You can't take the "first take" claim too literally, when he's playing everything himself.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 13, 2004 14:21:08 GMT -5
This contradicts Paul's assertions that he usually records things in 1 or 2 takes, with him playing guitar and singing at the same time. Unless he's figured out a way to play two guitars, a bass, drums and sing at the same time, then I don't think we should be taking the "1 or 2 takes" claim too literally.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 13, 2004 2:34:32 GMT -5
Makin' Me Go is the song that sounds really different on headphones to me. His voice is too separate (I'm also not a musician). Like you really picture him recording the voice and music separately. That's my problem with a lot of his basement recordings. The multi-tracking is too obvious, and it gives a lot of it a really disjointed and/or antiseptic sound. See "Let's Not Belong". That song sounds like it's stuck together with chewing gum and twine. And I don't mean in a good way. It sounds like each track was recorded years apart on different continents.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 11, 2004 16:45:44 GMT -5
I think it was mentioned a long time ago, but the alt. version of "Cracke and Drag" sounds really different in headphones. The bass is all over the place (really technical phrase-I'm not a musician). A mistake? The bass on the alt. version of C&D isn't really all over the place; it's just one of his more musical basslines. It's the opposite of a mistake, actually. He clearly put a lot of effort into not only the bass part, but also into the overall recording of the song. The intentionally off-kilter back-up vocals, weird piano tinklings and strange sounds are all much easier to hear on headphones, but they aren't there by accident. But then I haven't found any other song of his recorded that way. Try listening to the album version of "All Shook Down" versus the stripped down version on Nothing For All. The album version is a headphone version with all sorts of little additions that some people would write off as mistakes, but these "mistakes" were obviously carefully orchestrated and intentionally mixed into the song. He does the same thing with "Crackle and Drag". But if you're just talking about the uncharacteristically musical bass part, that's because he's a self-admittedly lousy bass player, and he obviously doesn't put as much effort into most of his other songs. The bassline for C&D alt. version is one of the few on the album that actually complements the guitar part instead of simply mirroring it.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 8, 2004 1:02:40 GMT -5
but can one of the women hear explain to me what February make up is? She's getting dolled up for Valentine's Day (Feb. 14).
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 7, 2004 3:49:13 GMT -5
And "Things" is a brilliant song. I'm hoping for more of that twang in Folker.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 7, 2004 3:18:46 GMT -5
This is sort of odd, but during the original take of Crackle and Drag, I love when he plays the little thing on the guitar, like when you're tuning by ear, and you rest your finger on the string and pluck. (holy crap, I play guitar and I dont know what the f*ck thats called) Anyways, that always stands out for me. Also, basically everything about the song "Things" is incredible. Harmonics.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 5, 2004 17:56:40 GMT -5
My favorite moment from his Stereo/Mono solo tour was a performance of Between Love and Like where he decides to play the chorus earlier than on the record (where it's delayed masterfully): "We're gonna go to it!" I always thought it was strange how people kept pointing out the "delayed" chorus of Between Love and Like. It's not really delayed at all. The song starts of with a standard verse/verse/chorus pattern. If he had thrown in another verse before the chorus then it would have been delayed, but there's nothing unusual about teasing with the bridge after the first verse and then holding onto the chorus until after the second verse. Back on topic, one of my favorite moments is during Inherit The Earth, of all things. When Paul lets out an anguished howl that leads into the line "Got my hands in my pockets/waiting for the day to come," it gives me a chill every time. Raw emotion dirtying up the glossily produced sheen.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 5, 2004 18:00:02 GMT -5
Thanks. It sounds like a lot of his distaste may have more to do with the bitter feelings he has about the breakup than it does with the actual songs. That said, I doubt anyone with ears would disagree with the charge that the production quality on the album is terrible.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 4, 2004 16:44:36 GMT -5
Where did you read that he disliked Tim?
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 5, 2004 17:43:34 GMT -5
I always assumed that the part of "Alex Chilton" where it breaks down to just the mandolin and Paul's vocals ("good good love/what's that song......") was a musical/vocal reference to a Chilton tune. Anyone? He's singing "I'm in love/what's that song/Yeah, I'm in love/with that song," not "good, good love..."
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 4, 2004 16:43:05 GMT -5
None of Chilton's music sounds particularly like the Mats song. I'm sure you've heard Chilton at some point in your life, whether you were aware of it or not. Most people are at least familiar with a couple Box Tops tunes (see http://www.boxtops.com). I'm sure that a lot of the lyrics are inside jokes that we'll never be able to decipher. Remember that the Mats actually worked with Chilton; it wasn't just a one-time meeting that provided the inspiration. Paul has talked a lot about their sessions with Chilton in various interviews. Both Paul and Tommy called Chilton "weird," so maybe the "if he was from Venus" line was a reference to his weirdo qualities.
And just to riff on an adamapple typo, maybe Paul should call his band the "Expensive Whinos" as an allusion to his recently neutered vocal style.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 8, 2004 0:58:15 GMT -5
I like Suicaine, but its overall mood is so depressing that it's difficult to swallow whole. It has some of his best solo songs (Born For Me, Wonderful Lie) and some his worst (Sunrise Always Listens), so it doesn't really work well as an album. I do a lot of skipping around. But I will say that Fugitive Kind is one of my favorites and I've always wondered why not many people are as enthusiastic about it as I am. I would love to hear him do it live (with a band).
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Post by ClamsCasino on Apr 4, 2004 16:54:07 GMT -5
I agree that the performance on the album probably can't be topped. I remember an earlier interview (maybe around the time of 14 Songs) where he was asked why he never played the song live anymore, and he explained that he was unable and unwilling to recreate those emotions live. He said the performance on the record is so powerful because it was 3am, he was coked to the gills, and he felt like killing himself. Clearly not a place he's wanted to return to since.
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