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Post by anarkissed on Dec 5, 2018 22:24:09 GMT -5
I would say so...
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Post by anarkissed on Dec 7, 2018 19:50:15 GMT -5
I've said this before...And been wrong...But this is it from him, isn't it? He's never going to do an "actual album"...There's no way he's gonna tour...He's through writing songs, huh? I'm o.k. with the searching through the archives phase, but I think he hates that shit...He has earned his retirement...Fuck, I tried that for, about, nine months, and it was awesome...But I needed money...I don't think he does (Paul, if you do, hit me up...I ain't so poor I can't pitch in a $20...That's the least I owe)...But as an active musician recording, releasing, playing live, even overseeing reissues, I think he's done...It was an awesome ride, man...Fuck us...Relax...Your legacy is secured... The I Don't Cares album came out in 2015. I'll bet money he'll put out another album. I think that's more likely than you starting to post in actual grammatical sentences with a point instead of rambling "..." Alright, I've stewed over this a couple of days...I don't know...It bothered me...It seems unnecessarily hostile...This thread got several responses, so that kinda seems like that qualifies it as having "a point"...I've always liked ellipsis...It really does reflect my thought process...Which is admittedly scatterbrained and flightly...I can bury you in you those if you like...I'll just quote that renowned thinker and philosopher Jeff Spicoli: "Hey Bud, what's your problem?"
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Post by curmudgeonman on Dec 7, 2018 21:45:46 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dude, this is a very valid thread. Believe me.
Some of us realize that Westerberg, an extremely talented guy, tends to do things contrary to his "career". We all do it at a young age.
But when responsibilities starts to rear its ugly head in later years (past payments to record companies, mortgage, alimony payments, college tuition, life, etc), some of us, me included, start to reel things in while we're in our earning years. There are too many talented artists in rock history that languish in poverty/bullshit.
Terry Reid had to sell his guitars to survive in L.A. Thank God Johnny Depp helped him out a bit, but was it enough? Alex Chilton died while mowing his lawn, apparently of a heart attack. Without health insurance. And yada yada yada.
It's weird; some folks here seem to think that Westerberg could put out a home made little album, selling it to the 12 people here at this forum, and make money, and be a rock star supreme. But I can hear the artist types; money is not the motivation. But once one gets to the age downsliding to retirement, money has to enter somewhere.
Some of us hold an 80's paradigm with Westerberg; demanding he be a 60 yo asshole, a punk rebel, a total outsider. Where I actually wish him more financial stability to provide for his family, to reap some rewards for his genius, to be at a comfortable place in 10 years where none of this really matters anymore.
And people here forget that Westerberg is a fringe artist. He ain't Mick, Keith, McCartney, Neil Young, Ted Nugent, KISS, etc. His market share in this industry is extremely small.
Is he done? God, I hope not, because the guy has no other skills to make a living. His name brand will diminish each year he lives. He's gonna have to realize that the old guys that went to his reunion shows several year ago may not 5 years from now.
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Jer
Beagle Scout
Posts: 1,182
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Post by Jer on Dec 10, 2018 16:39:08 GMT -5
I don't think it's fair to say Paul is so fringe...yes, he is in a sense. But when he put out the Mr. F single a few years ago, a 300 pressing of a 7-inch, it did sell out in what, a day? Just saying that he still has a dedicated fan base that a lot of current artists would dream to have. He hasn't tried to capitalize on it, it feels like. I was at the St. Paul reunion show and would love to see it released in some form, especially because it seems apparent the legwork to professionally document it was already done. I think curmudgeonman makes some good points. Selling 300 7"s and releasing some half-assed MP3s to SoundCloud hardly takes him out of the "fringe" category. The St. Paul DVD isn't happening from what I've heard, he was miserable on that tour, and all signs point to the fact that he's not doing a "sellable" record with anyone any time soon, so he either doesn't need the money or doesn't want to get it that way. He may not be done, but if you're looking at the cards on the table and hoping for anything more than some basement recordings, you'd might want to think twice before going all in.
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Post by dee on Dec 11, 2018 2:42:49 GMT -5
It's going on 11 years since PW put out a solo album on a label and did press for it and played some shows. I would love a new PW CD with a cool cover and neat font and some "sellable" music on it.I dig all the basement stuff,but something conventional that blows some dust off the PW "brand" would go a long way to just making it fun to be a Westerberg fan again.
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Post by FreeRider on Dec 11, 2018 14:12:28 GMT -5
I remember some interview with Westy and they asked him about a reunion gig like the Pixies were doing. He kind of laughed and said the Pixies had a much larger fan base to make it worthwhile or something to that effect. He estimated the Mats fan base to be around 70,000. Really wish I could find that interview, but I'm wondering just what he's basing that 70k off of. I guess there is a bit of a cultish thing to Paul and the Mats careers. A fringe artist? I dunno. I would really hope, as curmudgeon had said, that Paul has socked away some money as he's hitting 60 soon, right? I would hope that Darren is looking out for him, whether it's helping to find publishing deals with Bug Music (although I have no idea if any of his stuff is getting licensed that much), or doing soundtracks for Sony. But who knows? He's known for surprising his fans---but the biggest and saddest surprise would be if he just quietly goes away. And if he's really done and if he says nothing, then that's something I'll understand, when it began...
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Post by anarkissed on Dec 11, 2018 16:39:09 GMT -5
He estimated the Mats fan base to be around 70,000. That figure seems low...
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Post by anarkissed on Dec 11, 2018 20:33:11 GMT -5
Which reminds me...Recommendations on web resources where you can look up sales figures for recorded formats? Gets more complicated with "streaming" and "downloads". (Look, I'm using actual periods, so certain people don't get their panties in a knot...Notice this fucker ain't had the common courtesy to respond, either...Punk...) I'd just like to see, for example, how many vinyl copies or CD's The Replacements sold for individual albums. I think this information has been somewhere here before. Be fun to see how many vinyl copies of the first Velvet Underground album sold in the year of its release. Or any kind of shit like that. Surely, there's some really obsessed fucker who has compiled this massive catalog of information and made it available for public consumption. I wanna say some of those Mats albums from "Tim" through "DTAS" were at least hitting six figures. In, you know, the first window of release; say, a year. Oh, here you go.........................................................
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Post by raccoon on Dec 11, 2018 21:05:00 GMT -5
He may not be done, but if you're looking at the cards on the table and hoping for anything more than some basement recordings, you'd might want to think twice before going all in. I'm going all in AND doubling down. Paul is not dead. He is not the walrus either.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Dec 12, 2018 1:31:45 GMT -5
Which reminds me...Recommendations on web resources where you can look up sales figures for recorded formats? I wanna say some of those Mats albums from "Tim" through "DTAS" were at least hitting six figures. In, you know, the first window of release; say, a year. There was a thread here once where somebody came up with an online resource for album sales, but I can't find it now. I remember Paul's solo sales were shockingly low. And he's seemingly intentionally whittled that number down over the years. Anyway, this was the Mats at their peak sales, and it wasn't exactly gangbusters: "The closest the Replacements came to a hit was “I’ll Be You,” from the 1989 album Don’t Tell a Soul, which sold less than 320,000 copies."
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Post by FreeRider on Dec 12, 2018 10:47:49 GMT -5
He estimated the Mats fan base to be around 70,000. That figure seems low... that's what I thought as well---how could his and the Mats fanbase only be 70k?? Really wish I could find that interview with him where he said that. Again, I wonder what he based that on. And looking back at some the Rolling Stone interview towards the end of the reunion gig, he said they didn't make a lot of money---because they still owed Warner Bros. back pay for their advances! So Paul really IS in a more precarious position than I thought. It's a cautionary tale to bands to not screw around and waste time in the studio---you're the one being billed for it! The record label recoups their investment into you out of your album sales, official videos and touring grosses. You need access to Soundscan to find sales figures. Here is one site that may have stuff: www.nextbigsound.com/
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Post by ClamsCasino on Dec 12, 2018 12:45:37 GMT -5
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Post by raccoon on Dec 12, 2018 21:30:21 GMT -5
Cue up 'Lodi'
Just about a year ago I set out on the road Seekin' my fame and fortune Lookin' for a pot of gold Thing got bad things got worse I guess you will know the tune
Oh Lord, stuck in Lodi again
I rode in on the Greyhound I'll be walkin' out if I go I was just passin' through Must be seven seven months or more Ran out of time and money Looks like they took my friends
Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Lodi again
The man from the magazine Said I was on my way Somewhere I lost connections Ran out of songs to play I came into town, a one night stand Looks like my plans fell through Oh Lord, stuck in Lodi again If I only had a dollar For ev'ry song I've sung And ev'ry time I had to play While people sat there drunk You know, I'd catch the next train Back to where I live Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Lodi again Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Lodi again
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Post by curmudgeonman on Dec 17, 2018 21:34:47 GMT -5
Paul Westerberg is a fringe artist, but The Replacements are, to paraphrase Peter Buck in regards to REM during Document, are "on the outer fringe of what is popular in music". Not a popular classic rock act, but a largely still unknown "legendary" band, perhaps on par with Big Star. But make no mistake; the band is larger in life and business than the leader.
By himself, Westerberg is way less of a draw than the Mats. Even Jagger could not come remotely close to the Stone's success when he went solo in the 80s. Could Westerberg draw the same crowds as his former band if he ever decided to tour? Not a chance, unless he had a really killer album release that captures the mainstream media's attention, the buying public's imagination, and tours behind it.
And I still run into people, who are “into music”, who have no idea who the Replacements were/are.
All of the time.
And I'm really sorry to say, selling out a run of 300 45 rpm discs is nothing. My lawyer friend can do that with his little hobby band. The harsh economic realities of earning in the music business has changed dramatically in the last 10-20 years; most music fans have no idea of the financials of a popular musician nowadays. Since the late 90s, CD sales have plummeted over 70%. Actual average royalties for someone like Westerberg earns off a record deal nowadays is approx. 50 cents per CD disc. And out of that 50 cents, management will take 8-10 cents, the record company will take another 17 cents for recording costs, marketing, tour costs, etc.
So selling one million CDs could very well net an artist/band as much/little as $230,000 before taxes. Songwriting royalties net even less. Thus, why live concerts, largely under the control of the artist, is the money maker in the millennium.
Spotify and other streaming services pay out almost nothing, approx. $00.007 (less than a penny) per play. It was reported that the Korean "recording artist" PSY made a couple of million dollars off of youtube plays of his massive global hit "Gangham Style", but due to BILLIONS OF VIEWS. And unfortunately, Lars from Metallica back in the day, predicted the current vehicle of music distribution- theft. So now the top ways to earn a living in rock music is touring, merchandise sales, and film/TV soundtracks deals. Very few people in the music business can earn through royalties alone.
Yeah, Westy did state that The Replacements still owed Warner Bros on past advances. The band, AFAIK, never officially dissolved their band, took it to chapter 11 status, never really broke up with Warner Bros.,etc. . Think about it; the band sold very little of their catalog, took advances to pay for recording studios, to pay Tommy Ramone, Tony Berg, Matt Wallace, Scott Litt, etc. To pay for tour start-up costs, heavy marketing for Don't Tell A Soul. To pay for the videos. To pay for the damage and carnage in their wake. This all comes out of their pockets. Every tour bus they trash, they pay for. In one of the books, Slim Dunlap stated that he counts himself fortunate to not have signed a contract to be an official member of the Mats, because he would be partly responsible for the debt. Wow.
The music business is one fucked up way of making a living. Given the names of artist "ripped off", everyone from Little Richard, The Beatles to The Clash, Prince, etc., there are few artists who have a handle on the money, and how to financially survive in rock 'n'roll. The Mats didn't make a dime from Twin Tone, and perhaps rightly so. They still owed for their Warner's contract 30 years later.
Not a lot of wiggle room here folks.
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Post by dee on Dec 18, 2018 5:57:22 GMT -5
Well if you're a guy who doesn't want to tour and you just record in your basement and put out band camp stuff with no publicity,you will get what that market allows.PW obviously doesn't want to put his stuff out there against what is in the mainstream market.Maybe what he puts out reaches some kind of quota that qualifies him to be in a union or something and it has nothing to do with putting stuff out for the diehards.
But why not put something out that could be Grammy worthy? It would be nice to see Westerberg make an album like Time Out Of Mind by Dylan or Nick Of Time by Bonnie Raitt and get recognized.Of course it would mean having the right songs and the right producer and stepping up to the plate and giving a fuck and making it known,or marketing it as a real attempt to achieve industry recognition.Of course this will never happen to the guy in his basement recording stuff for band camp whose music puts most of the Grammy artists to shame.
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Post by FreeRider on Dec 18, 2018 10:50:03 GMT -5
it reminds me of the quote Mehr got out of one of Tom Petty's roadies and was in the book, how amazed he was at how the Mats would go from godawful to just brilliant. I can't remember the quote entirely but it the roadies said to Paul after he and the Mats played an incredible opening set, "You guys are so great when you want to be. Why don't you wanna be great all the time?" And Paul had no answer.
We can apply that to his music releases, I suppose.
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Post by twicks1 on Dec 18, 2018 13:36:09 GMT -5
Cue up the Mudhoney, more like:
I like it, I like it, I like it small I like it, I like it, I like it small
I'm not on some grandiose trip I'm fine with little sips I'm good with Gladys sans the Pips Now let me go down the list Minimal production, low yield Intimate settings, limited appeal Dingy basements, short runs No expectations, wait I'm not done!
I like it, I like it, I like it small I like it, I like it, I like it small
I don't need no Magnum A snub nose will do just fine And I'll take GG Allin Over Long Dong Silver any time And when I orgy, I cap it at 12 Any more than that and I get overwhelmed
Don't you sweat the little things I like to try to sneak them in I keep em tucked, in my vest What they might be, you can only guess And when I show my hand You will finally understand That I've got big enough balls To admit that I like it small
I like it, I like it, I like it small I like it, I like it, I like it small I like it, I like it, I like it small I like it, I like it, I like it small.
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Post by anarkissed on Dec 18, 2018 17:36:30 GMT -5
Paul Westerberg is a fringe artist That was a very interesting post. But it seemed like you were trying to convince someone who disagreed with you, and I don't think anybody did.
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Jer
Beagle Scout
Posts: 1,182
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Post by Jer on Dec 18, 2018 18:33:43 GMT -5
But why not put something out that could be Grammy worthy? ........ Of course it would mean having the right songs and the right producer and stepping up to the plate and giving a fuck and making it known,or marketing it as a real attempt to achieve industry recognition........ I think it's because he doesn't want to be "out there." It's speculation based on history, but I think he's insecure when it comes to releasing music. He doesn't want to be judged against those artists, against his past, his talent, or his potential. He knows that anything he does will immediately and constantly be put up against those things and he's uncomfortable/scared/bitter (or some combination of those things) about living up to those impossible expectations. Additionally, his entire career has been an attempt to both embrace and shit on those mainstream institutions, often at the exact same time. Maybe the price you pay for that is the public eventually gets tired of rooting for you, and between that and the lost time between his last truly marketable release, maybe he's also a bit worried about that indifference. A little confidence, compromise, and hard work and we'd probably get a hell of an album. Not holding my breath for that.
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Post by anarkissed on Dec 18, 2018 20:35:18 GMT -5
This has been a fun thread...But I think I maybe, really, only had one point to begin with: Paul is never, ever going to go into a "real" studio, with a "real" band, and a "real" producer and make a "real" album, ever, again...I don't see it...I don't think he needs to, or has to, or wants to, or will, just for fun. I'd like to be wrong. I don't think I will be. But, if I am, I will buy everybody who has posted here in the last year the drink of their choice at Starbucks. Unless that turns out to be worth over a $100, in which case I will pretend I was drunk and blacked out when I said that, and will claim that voids the offer. Except that MatsAreAlive, or whoever the fuck he is dude...I'll send him $20...Fucker...
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