randolph500
Star Scout
round the corner give it some gas
Posts: 758
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Post by randolph500 on Mar 29, 2007 10:18:05 GMT -5
Many posts in the lyrics thread have alluded to Paul's use of religious imagery (references to destiny, fate, heaven, angels, prayers even).
None however, have said anything about his upbringing as a Catholic. He never strikes me as a preachy Godbotherer – but as a marvellously lapsed Catholic myself - I’m interested in how other fans pick up on this.
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Post by kgp on Mar 29, 2007 11:50:13 GMT -5
Many posts in the lyrics thread have alluded to Paul's use of religious imagery (references to destiny, fate, heaven, angels, prayers even). None however, have said anything about his upbringing as a Catholic. He never strikes me as a preachy Godbotherer – but as a marvellously lapsed Catholic myself - I’m interested in how other fans pick up on this. I'm not sure what you're asking. From my perspective -- not really a lapsed Catholic, I don't think I was ever Catholic enough to consider myself lapsed. I was baptized Catholic, but religion wasn't a big part of my upbringing. No one in my family is what you'd call a practicing Catholic, and I do call myself an atheist -- whatever religious imagery in song usually slips by me. Random things I have picked up on: the rosary he's wearing in the "What a Day" video, or the "drunk after Church at 13" line in "We May Be the Ones." (Was Paul an altar boy? Is that what altar boys do? Steal the sacramental wine? It's watered down, you know.) In the few interview in which he talked about his upbringing, I got the impression that he's not totally "lapsed." He says he believes in god and still goes to church sometimes (the former from the Pop Culture press (I think) thing from 2002 talking about his son being born, the latter from a 1996 interview). I respect him for it: being honest rather than trying to fashion some answer that would make him seem "cool" or whatever. |
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randolph500
Star Scout
round the corner give it some gas
Posts: 758
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Post by randolph500 on Mar 29, 2007 12:15:54 GMT -5
Hi KGP,
I was sort of hesitant about asking the question and re-reading I can see it is clumsily written, and perhaps doesn't convey really what I originally was thinking about. I just wanted to flag it up really.
What I wanted to avoid was just a series of lifts from his lyrics.
It's like when you think of Bob Dylan you can't help but think what inspired him from to Judaism to Christianity (and back again? – sigh - I lose track).
With Paul, I haven't read much written about his "spirituality" - if you like – but major life events like the death of his father and birth of his son have left their mark lyrically.
But in the background there's an understated sense of the spiritual. Okay he doesn't do politics and I like that - but as he's matured both as a man and a writer there are themes that he’s woven in rather than put up front. Stuff he wouldn’t have done even ten years ago.
As he gets older I wonder where he'll go next.
I know in America there's more defined lines on issues of faith and political grouping - and it wasn't my intention to go down that nebulous line – as it’ll go nowhere. BTW I only mentioned my own lapsed Catholicism because I didn’t want a whole load of irate zealots following up with some twisted posts.
Now, where were we?
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randolph500
Star Scout
round the corner give it some gas
Posts: 758
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Post by randolph500 on Mar 30, 2007 6:39:00 GMT -5
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Post by nowwesayitoutloud on Mar 30, 2007 17:49:52 GMT -5
What he describes in A Star Is Bored pretty much iced the religiosity question for me.
If you did want to go in for some heavy lyric lifting, and it seems like you might, I bet you find Catholic stuff (some too subtle for me to detect, I'm sure) distributed fairly evenly across his whole career.
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Post by wecantgetanybetter on Feb 14, 2012 14:38:50 GMT -5
Happened to run across this old thread while looking for something else. I thought it was interesting to think about with Catholicism in the headlines in recent days. Probably a few new examples since 2006 too ..
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ishcabible
Second Class Scout
Can't Hardly Wait....
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Post by ishcabible on Jul 24, 2013 0:56:09 GMT -5
IMHO...."As Far As I Know" is all about a faith in a higher power,,,in other words, singing about God. This was written when Paul's father passed away, so religion/life/death/mortality was a big theme on "Folker". Read the lyrics again and see if it doesn't read like he is describing his view of God....
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Post by thedroid on Aug 29, 2013 12:05:18 GMT -5
Being raised Catholic in the Midwest is going to affect his language and the symbols he uses, for sure. A line like "father, son, and holy me" isn't likely to be used by someone raised Protestant. But Westerberg doesn't strike me as someone who would hide religious messages in a tune. He does like to take cliches and idioms and twist them or turn them around. I would read the line above as a clever way to say "I'm a ghost," a frequent image in his songs.
The reference to "divine law" seems to mean the prohibition against suicide.
"Leap of faith" is a common idioms used by faithful and unfaithful alike. I wouldn't read too much into it.
In "2 Days" he's obviously on his knees to beg a woman to stay, not to pray.
The "eye of a needle" does seem to be a reference to the biblical parable about the rich man not getting into heaven. There's no reference to anyone passing through the eye in the parable; it's that a camel would sooner pass through than the rich man enter heaven. I would hazard a guess and say that the song's narrator means he can pass through because he's either poor or virtuous or both, but it's a slightly skewed reading of the parable.
"Nevermind" is a break-up song, so he'd be asking for absolution for something he'd done to wrong the other person, not from God.
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Post by thedroid on Aug 29, 2013 13:34:07 GMT -5
A really clear bible reference is "We'll inherit the earth."
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