PW Mpls Show - What Do You Want To Hear?

[scoOter]

elegantmule said:

...the opportunity to talk to a guy about what he's been doing for the last five years..honest, creative, booty shake worthy stuff!...and all anybody wants to do is relive their frat boy pasts....fricking grow up.

And there's no excuses anymore, because he's toured how many times and played the oldies but goodies for everyone who missed it the first time around.

What is wrong with people?

harsh as this sounds, i have a hard time disagreeing with my friend, the mule. i was a little taken aback by the poll results.

[ih8music]

I'm not surprised at all about the poll results. After all, it is just a popularity contest, and as such, the winners are going to be those songs which have have a) been heard by the most people and b) which have the most mass appeal.

Those classic replacement songs are at the top of the list because, first and foremost, those are kick ass, anthemic, classic songs that 99.99% of the people here either love or really like a lot. But almost equally important is that everyone who voted has actually heard those songs (granted, a million times) and therefore has an opinion of them (something you can't necessarily say, for example, about Vampires & Failures or other recent material).

The other factor here is that Paul's recent material is definitely rougher around the edges (in various ways) and that turns some people off. So while I personally love the "fun" raggedness (is that even a word?) on Dead Man Shake, I dislike how that same vibe often comes across (to me, at least) as just sloppy, lazy and boring on Folker - but I can see many people having the exact opposite reaction.

It might be a little more interesting if the poll only contained Paul's solo material, and if so, would stuff off of the better-selling 14 Songs/Eventually outrank something off of Stereo/Mono, for example?

In any event, thank god that Paul is such an asshole that he won't give this poll a second thought and will play/talk about whatever he damn well pleases.

[kgp]

Plus isn't the poll open to everyone, not just the members of this board. I mean, it should come as no surpise that we're not exactly the casual fans who just want to hear "Alex Chilton."

[scoOter]

ih8music said:

In any event, thank god that Paul is such an asshole that he won't give this poll a second thought and will play/talk about whatever he damn well pleases.

god, i hope you are right. these results, from a poll taken almost exclusively by people on a (tiny) handful of incestuous paul westerberg boards, sort of frighten me for two reasons:

1. i can virtually guarantee that most poll responders were not considering which songs had the best "back stories". they just voted on their favorite songs. for every "alex chilton" that got a 10, an "angels walk" or "my daydream" got a 2 or 3.

2. i'll bet there are good stories to tell about the last 16 years, too. if you are keeping track, that is longer than the 'mats were around.

are we really that predictable? i am not trying to criticize too much. i mean, i LOVE those songs a ton. a ton. i was just really floored by how much this poll indicated that paul's fans either do not know his solo material, or genuinely do not like it nearly as much as "i will dare".

it was an eye-opener.

[Kathy]

I agree that looking at the poll, it seems like people voted on the basis of favorite song, rather than "what song would I like to hear in this kind of setting and to perhaps hear a little bit of the back story on?"

On the other hand, Paul's output to date is pretty equally divided between solo and Mats stuff and I want to hear him do "If Only You Were Lonely" or "Can't Hardly Wait" as much as I want to hear him do "It's A Wonderful Lie" or "Born For Me" or "As Far As I Know", I love the old songs as much as I do the new songs, so I don't think there's anything inherently 'wrong' about wanting to hear both.

I had the opportunity to see Bruce do a similiar (though much longer) show of this type, no interviwer, he just talked about the songs. This was 2002 I think and one of the best things he did that night was play "Blinded by The Light" (a 30 year old song then) and then immediately play it again, stopping every few lines to talk about the lyrics. It was wildly entertaining and amazing. I don't I was a 'bad' fan because I wanted Bruce to include stuff from his entire career that night, rather than only stuff from his last few albums.

I guess I just can't really come down on people who would love to hear Paul talk about "I Will Dare", cause I'd love that too. And I feel like Paul is such a great storyteller, that if you picked 10 songs at random from his career to feature, it'd still be amazing.

[Cotton]

I get what this poll is going for, but when ranking from these songs from "Zero (Awful) to Ten (Brilliant)" I found it extremely hard to tone down the love. If I had given any of the top 11 songs from the results anything less than a 7, I'd have to give myself a Dobby-esque beating.


Meet Me In the Meadow, Love You in the Fall, All About Me, Whisper Me Luck and some backstory on the Open Season "craft" would be sweet.

[scoOter]

admin said:

Paul's output to date is pretty equally divided between solo and Mats stuff

oh, indeed, but the poll isn't divided this way...

I want to hear him do "If Only You Were Lonely" or "Can't Hardly Wait" as much as I want to hear him do "It's A Wonderful Lie" or "Born For Me" or "As Far As I Know"

if it were, we would see a top 10 that was fairly 50/50 mats/solo. instead, the top 10 is ENTIRELY mats, and the rest of the poll is pretty heavily weighted to the mats as well; until you get to the mid-late sections. the mats resoundingly "won". now, this is on the basis of fans' voting, and that is fine, but it says something about what we, collectively think of the solo material i think.

again, though, i LOVE the mats material, and i am sure there are great stories to tell about "alex chilton", but i think i would REALLY like to hear more about "23 years ago" & "baby learns to crawl" in 2007.

there are no casual paul fans at this point. i doubt there ever were, really. i think a lot of us have already heard the "how did vomit get on the ceiling" & "tommy ramone was deaf when he recorded 'tim' for us" stories.

i am not doubting anyone's "fandom", or comparing mine. i am just drawing some conclusions that i wasn't ready for, to be perfectly frank.

[ElegantMule]

At this point I'm doubting people's sanity. I'll admit it.

Is PW going to have to shuffle through the Mats back catalog every few years forever?

As a fan, I am sick to DEATH of rehashing the past. I can't imagine what PW must feel like trotting out "Customer" almost 30 years later. He must just laugh his ass off.


It makes me extremely despondent that at this point he has a career (count those solo records! Count 'em!)- based on being Paul Westerberg ONLY - not who he once was - and it seems like his fans won't let him have it.

I'm not saying to never play the old songs, I'm saying to keep this guy locked in the past is a....flippin' travesty.

[Kathy]

Even though I disagree with you guys on this (I'll never not want to here Bruce do "Blinded By The Light" or Paul do "If Only You Were Lonely"), it's nice to see some old faces posting again.

[scoOter]

admin said:

Even though I disagree with you guys on this (I'll never not want to here Bruce do "Blinded By The Light" or Paul do "If Only You Were Lonely"), it's nice to see some old faces posting again.

i want to be really clear: i DEFINITELY want to hear paul play some mats songs. i just don't think he should haveto play mostly old mats songs to keep us happy. and judging by the poll (again, it's us. it's our opinion.) if we had our way we would have him do just that.

there is no other way to read the results.

and i, for one, found that surprising & somewhat troubling.

[Nevermind(2)]

...to understand Paul's music you need to know where it started and where he was coming from. What he has written in the last 5 years is a reflection of where he came from. The last 5 years of honest creative stuff would not be around without the frat boy days.

If "Unsatisfied" is not honest and creative, I'm not sure what is. He once ended that song in a show 20 years ago with the line "I want to go home". Honestly.

His old songs hold up against anything new he has written. Those old songs have sculpted Paul into what he is today. I'm sorry you didn't have a chance to see him 20 years ago and be able to "live" through songs like "Little Mascara" and "Left of the Dial", but I'm sure in 20 years you'll be asking to hear him play "Meet me down the Alley". Grow up, I think in this case, is a relative term.

[scoOter]

tfenelon said:

...to understand Paul's music you need to know where it started and where he was coming from. What he has written in the last 5 years is a reflection of where he came from.

His old songs hold up against anything new he has written. Those old songs have sculpted Paul into what he is today.

i certainly do not want to speak for ms. mule, but i think she & i are riding a similar wave in our comments; maybe not exactly, but close enough.

i think it bears mentioning, once more, that NO ONE on this board would question whether or not unsatisfied or here comes a regular are good songs. they are! they are Good Songs. without this great mats catalog, none of us would be together, and this cat, paul westerberg, would just be a weird shut in singer-songwriter.

i am agreeing with you, nevermind, that his early songs inform his newer ones, and that many of them are as good as anything on stereo/mono.

i think we both were just reacting the utter lack of positive response on the poll to his solo material. look at the results. check out the top 20, and the bottom 20. it is staggering how we obviously feel about his solo material.

then again, maybe the poll is flawed (sorry, kathy). maybe the poll would only be legit data if we had to go through & rate EVERY song he has ever written. i'd spend the 20 mins to do it. still, i think this sampling poll indicates what would probably happen.

[Nevermind(2)]

...New or Old, Paul is brilliant and I think everyone agrees with that. It's really hard to put into to a box what Paul's best stuff is, because it is all great. I'm sure whatever songs he plays and talks about will shed some new light about who he is and what makes him the musical genius he is.

I'm just glad to see that his hand is better and he can continue to play. Hopefully we'll all hear new stuff followed by a new tour.

[ElegantMule]

Good thing it's a slow day at the office...

tfenelon said:

...to understand Paul's music you need to know where it started and where he was coming from. What he has written in the last 5 years is a reflection of where he came from. The last 5 years of honest creative stuff would not be around without the frat boy days.

OBJECTION:

To understand Paul's music you need to have ears.

I think Paul's current solo work can stand on it's own regardless of one's knowledge of his past. Do YOU think so, uberfan?

And even though it can't be proven in a lab, I disagree vehemently that he needed to be trapped in a van with Chirs, Bob, and Tommy for a chunk of the 80s to have made Mono. Or Stereo. Who knows what went into that cauldron for Mono? Sure, it was probably informed by those days, but it's such a slam on PW to say "oh he never could be what he is now without the Mats."

And I can't believe that I am agreeing with Scooter on anything, because I never agree with Scooter about anything, and Kathy I am so surprised that you feel the way you do, I really am! But I get it, I do. And I get everybody's wanting to visit the good ol' days. I do to, TO A POINT. But having ALL of the top songs be from back in the day, I want to shake my ruler at all of you and say

"Go listen to Folker again!"

...err....or CFMT, or well, you get it.

[ElegantMule]

I'm begging...please.....just something post 2000 in the top 15....

[scoOter]

tfenelon said:

...New or Old, Paul is brilliant and I think everyone agrees with that.

right... but... i mean... well, no, i don't think the data backs up that claim. i agree with what you are saying, but there are three (3) solo tracks in the top 20, and the bottom 20 is all solo material... well, except for message to the boys.

but, yes, i do agree that it is great that his hand is better, and he is getting out, and i hope to hell i win the free passes. i am done trying to rouse the rabble over this matter... for now

[ElegantMule]

I can't believe I got so worked up over this.

MORE TRANQUILIZERS PLEASE!

Barkeep, I believe this glass had gin in it at one point...

Sorry Kathy, for wrecking the place. That's what you get for announcing a contest, young lady!

[Nevermind(2)]

...all over but the shoutin', just a waste of time...nevermind.

[Nevermind(2)]

thanks for the warm welcome to the board. I was just didn't agree with the 'frat boy' comment.

[randolph500]

Welcome aboard Nevermind. Pleased to meet you!!

Back to topic..

I got into to Paul during the whole Mats scene .. but you sort of move on in the sixteen odd years that have passed since their split. There's always that tendency to wander off and grab a beer/take a leak when any band says "we'd now like to play some of our new stuff..." but in Paul's case that just wouldn't be so. In fact you'd be missing a whole heap of classics.

But surely this is about Paul as a songwriter. Were this event to just mean him being boxed into just one area of his past, is nostalgic, reductive and bracketing. Especially when there is so much more to glean from him ... Surely this can't be allowed to drift into another terrible blown opportunity in a career already littered with them.

That said if he shifts lorryloads of back catalogue and is set for life then who am i to moan?