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Post by daddybrave on Dec 13, 2006 15:19:14 GMT -5
For all the purists out there who would cling to a narrow view of musical careers, let's look at Tommy Stinson from an innocent perspective.
This is a kid who started playing bass in his older brother's band when he was ELEVEN years old. He made history with that band and then joined their polar opposite in terms of fame and notoriety.
Think of Tommy Stinson picking up a bass for the first time and wondering what he could do with it. Think of him playing until calluses started to form on his fingers. Think of him picking out what outfit to wear some cold night going to jump onstage in front of ADULTS.
Fast forward to him playing in front of stadium size crowds in one of the most influential (like 'em or not and I do) bands in rock history.
That's what you call a dream come true. And he's still making music with his old friends from home while he does it. And putting out excellent music of his own.
I drank the kool-aid the first time I heard 'I Will Dare' in 1985 on some college radio station. So I'm a lifelong Replacementologist but I can't hang with the idea that Tommy is somehow besmirching their legacy by playing more music with different people. I don't care who they are. And I'm going to catch their show at Universal Studios in Hollywood next week! Does that mean I've sold out too? If so, I'm not sorry!
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Post by A Regular on Dec 13, 2006 15:24:26 GMT -5
Apology accepted  I think it all matters on your opinion of Guns and Roses or Axl Rose. If you think that band is great, then kudos to the bassist. If you think they are overblown crap you'll think TS will play anything as long as the $$ is OK. Hard to pass judgment though either way as we aren't walking in those shoes or had the chance to pass on that size payday. |
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Post by daddybrave on Dec 13, 2006 15:33:50 GMT -5
I just don't think personal taste SHOULD come into it. Even if I hated G'N'R, which if I think long enough I can certainly find ample reason to, I'd be psyched and amazed that the little band that sort-of-could coughed their bass player out into the behemoth.
Money/shmoney. Did Tommy play bass on a BT electonica CD for money? Maybe, but at the end of the day you have to pick up the instrument and deliver.
I'd be psyched if he were touring with the Backstreet Boys.
Er, don't quote me on that, but you get my drift!
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Smorgasberg
Star Scout
It has to be the shoes, money!
Posts: 527
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Post by Smorgasberg on Dec 13, 2006 15:51:59 GMT -5
The thing that hangs me up about working with Axl is that the guy has just been a complete ass to his fans. Night after night, tour after tour, he's no-showed, showed up three hours late, physically attacked people in the crowd, and thrown one prima-donna hissy fit after another. Then, he's been promising a new album since the Reagan administration, it seems like. And Tommy always wants to defend him, sometimes comparing him favorably to PW, who may be a little prickly, but is positively saintly to his fans by comparison. I mean you never know what he's going to play or whether he'll know the words, but he'll be there, and he'll probably wait around at the bus to sign autographs afterwards. Also, of course, Paul isn't touring with three new dudes and calling it the Replacements.
So, it's not a musical taste thing to me, it's the apologetics for a guy who seems to have really abused his rock star priveleges.
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Post by daddybrave on Dec 13, 2006 16:40:05 GMT -5
Imagine you are going to see your favorite band play. You've saved up your money. You've waited breathlessly. You arrive. The singer is so drunk he refuses to play any of his own songs. The band repeatedly shifts instruments and tries to play covers they haven't rehearsed. Pretty soon things devolve to the point where a fan is playing lead guitar, the singer is at the bar, and the show is basically over before it ever began.
And you wonder that Tommy feels at home in G'N'R? The only difference is the venue. Now, I'm not saying that Paul is as negative and confrontational as Axl, but he's no stranger to doing whatever the hell he wants in front of people who paid good money to see him.
Would I like Axl to have a change of heart and tour the country playing inspired shows and waiting afterwards to meet anyone who came to see the show as Paul did? Yes, and maybe he will someday. That'd go a long way towards making up for all the crap he's doled out to his fans. Paul made that effort but let's not forget that the Replacements pissed a LOT of their fans off repeatedly over the years. Me included.
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Post by scoOter on Dec 13, 2006 17:00:50 GMT -5
i can see both sides for sure. tommy's decision certainly hasn't diminished my love of his work with the 'mats, or bash & pop, or perfect, or solo.
it's real simple for me. while, i don't begrudge him a paycheck, the idea of him in g 'n r is absolutely bizarro world batshit crazy. i still can't get used to the idea, and wonder daily if i am in some extended fever dream.
i think it is on the boot "shit shower & shave", tommy makes fun of axl during nightclub jitters.
again, him being in the dysfunctional family that is g 'n r is just plain weird, and i don't like it. so, i will continue to ignore g n' r until they finally, at long last, disappear off the face of the earth. simultaneously, i will celebrate tommy's catalog, and pine desperately for tommy to patch it up with paul once & for all & record with him. not as the replacements, but as my generations glimmer twins.
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Post by Placemat on Dec 13, 2006 17:06:45 GMT -5
Apology accepted Wise ass!  I can't stand GnR & really feel they're the polar opposite of everything the Mats were. However, if Rose offered me a nice paycheck to play bass in the band I wouldn't say no. More power to Tommy, & if he really does dig it, then bonus. |
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Post by Placemat on Dec 13, 2006 17:16:44 GMT -5
i still can't get used to the idea, and wonder daily if i am in some extended fever dream. i think it is on the boot "shit shower & shave", tommy makes fun of axl during nightclub jitters. No sh!t, I can still remember being floored by the news. Tommy a gunner?! If you told me that in 1989, I would have laughed & called you crazy. Truth IS stranger than fiction. & Yeah, that's the boot were Tommy does his Axl dance. Wonder if Axl has asked to see it. |
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Post by nowwesayitoutloud on Dec 13, 2006 17:16:48 GMT -5
The thing that hangs me up about working with Axl is that the guy has just been a complete ass to his fans. ... And Tommy always wants to defend him ... Didn't Tommy stand up to, or at least not defend, Axl after the debacle of dissing the opening act? Either on stage or afterwards? |
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Post by Tarzan on Dec 13, 2006 17:26:22 GMT -5
I think rock stars are supposed to abuse their privileges. And make a bunch of $$$. I doubt PW hits the road for the thrills, and I don't think TS was ever "innocent," even when he was 6 years old.
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Post by daddybrave on Dec 13, 2006 17:51:38 GMT -5
Bizarro world is perfect. I prefer to look at it as something that adds to the Replacements legacy rather than detracts from it.
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Post by scoOter on Dec 13, 2006 18:00:11 GMT -5
Bizarro world is perfect. I prefer to look at it as something that adds to the Replacements legacy rather than detracts from it. i'm going to stop you right there. ts's g n' r status has nothing to do with the replacements' legacy. it's just his thing he is doing now. like hootie doing burger king commercials. i don't fault him for the paycheck, but i choose to ignore it. |
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Post by Tarzan on Dec 13, 2006 19:03:22 GMT -5
I thought Hootie's Burger King commercials were much better than anything the Blowfish ever did.
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Post by scoOter on Dec 14, 2006 9:48:10 GMT -5
I thought Hootie's Burger King commercials were much better than anything the Blowfish ever did. ouch! (but i agree) |
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Smorgasberg
Star Scout
It has to be the shoes, money!
Posts: 527
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Post by Smorgasberg on Dec 14, 2006 10:11:18 GMT -5
The thing that hangs me up about working with Axl is that the guy has just been a complete ass to his fans. ... And Tommy always wants to defend him ... Didn't Tommy stand up to, or at least not defend, Axl after the debacle of dissing the opening act? Either on stage or afterwards? I think if you look at the "Tommy quits G N' R?" thread, you'll see that he completely denies ever making any stand against Axl, claims they're a wonderful happy family, and tells anyone who says otherwise to f*** off. This is absolutely par for the course for Tommy's Axl P.R. and it makes me a little nauseous. Here's a story. About three years ago, the new G N' R books a little mini-tour (with Chinese Democracy about to come out any minute!) and one of the dates is Philadelphia. A friend of mine knows Axl's awful reputation but loves the music, so he buys tickets at auction and drives about seven hours to Philly for the show. He gets to listen to some rap band play for an hour, then waits three hours for G N' R to come out before hearing word of the cancellation, which promptly sets off a riot. The remaining dates on the tour are cancelled. No explanation given. My point is, I bet fifty bucks Tommy was there ready to go on. Don't you, at some point, have to say this is completely a clown show and move on. To head off the Mats comparisons, let me explain it this way. It seems to me like going to see Paul, either during or after the Mats, has always been like taking a really beautiful, but really wild, girl to the prom. You may have a wonderful, unforgettable night, or she may get drunk and puke on your tuxedo, or both might happen in the same evening. But either way, you're going to know you've been on a special date. Going to see Axl Rose, on the other hand, is like showing up at a girl's house on prom night, having her refuse to come out because she's in a bad mood, and then having her send her brother out to kick your ass because you have the audacity to be sitting there in her driveway. At the end of that experience, you really don't want one of your oldest friends to keep hanging out with that chick and defending her actions. Tommy's the old friend in this analogy, and his defense of this bitch urks me. |
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cford
Star Scout
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Post by cford on Dec 14, 2006 10:52:17 GMT -5
To head off the Mats comparisons, let me explain it this way. It seems to me like going to see Paul, either during or after the Mats, has always been like taking a really beautiful, but really wild, girl to the prom. You may have a wonderful, unforgettable night, or she may get drunk and puke on your tuxedo, or both might happen in the same evening. But either way, you're going to know you've been on a special date. Going to see Axl Rose, on the other hand, is like showing up at a girl's house on prom night, having her refuse to come out because she's in a bad mood, and then having her send her brother out to kick your ass because you have the audacity to be sitting there in her driveway. At the end of that experience, you really don't want one of your oldest friends to keep hanging out with that chick and defending her actions. Tommy's the old friend in this analogy, and his defense of this bitch urks me. Wow, that is a poignant analogy! Another way to look at it: A bad Replacements show was like a trainwreck you had to watch. Actually, I know people who went to Mats shows hoping for a drunken travesty. A bad GnR show with Axl late, and genuinely in a rotten mood seems to be something the fans just suffer through..For the sake of the "art" I guess... Tommy seems to be used to both cases. CF |
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Post by FreeRider on Dec 14, 2006 11:11:33 GMT -5
Hmm, some interesting viewpoints. I agree with sCooTer; I've never thought that Tommy playing with GnR tainted his Replacements days. In fact, I tend to think that Tommy adds credibility to GnR. I certainly don't begrudge him trying to make a paycheck and all. I don't see any cause and effect in Tommy being in GnR and how it affects the Mats legacy or whatever.
Now whether Tommy is an apologist for Axl----there's a case to made for that, given Tommy's public comments. But we don't really know how/what Tommy feels. Is it the PR machine talking? Is it Tommy protecting his interest in the band? If the band dies thru bad publicity, there goes Tommy's paycheck. I don't think we really know enough about Tommy and Axl's relationship to determine what's real and what's fake, and why the loyalty to Axl.
Either way, it boils down to this: either you like Axl or you hate him. But that bias shouldn't affect how you view Tommy.
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nazareth
Star Scout
All men are Liars.......
Posts: 537
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Post by nazareth on Dec 14, 2006 13:21:13 GMT -5
I frequent a lot of GNR boards, and Tommy is genuinely liked by all the fans. He's the only one in the band that will actually stand up to Axl. He's also a great bass player and Axl knows he's lucky to have him. Whether or not he's doing it for the money, I do think Tommy enjoys it and (according to him) is actually good friends with Axl. Tommy is ten years younger than Paul, and he still wants to live the Rock n Roll lifestyle. Paul records albums in his basement while watching his young son, Tommy tours the country playing in huge arenas and collecting a big paycheck. The two are pretty different these days, but i can't fault either one.
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who?
Star Scout
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Post by who? on Dec 14, 2006 16:03:52 GMT -5
I'm just chimin' in to say nice one.
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Post by Tarzan on Dec 14, 2006 21:22:26 GMT -5
Here's a couple of my favorite "rock stars abusing their privileges" anecdotes.
One time I saw Alex Chilton in a club with an audience of maybe 15 people. There were two girls glued to the front of the stage, gazing up at Chilton, absolutely in love with him. Everybody else in the club was sitting at the bar. Chilton (with his classic smirk) looked down after a couple of songs, noticed one of his shoe laces had come undone, and told one of the girls to tie his shoe. One of them promptly did just that. It was pretty great.
Another time I was at a Lou Reed concert and someone threw something on stage. Lou stopped in mid-song and said, "Next thing that flies up on this stage, the show's over. Because I could care less." I loved that one, too. Lou's threat was the high point of the show.
And I'm the sucker who drove anywhere from 20 minutes to four hours to have George Jones refuse to take the stage due to intoxication or whatever five times over two years the first five times I went to see him in the early 1980s. But when he finally showed up one night in Columbus, Georgia, it was all worth it. Now George Jones is boring and predictable, just like the Stones.
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