Jer
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Post by Jer on Jun 18, 2022 14:27:01 GMT -5
Well, the thing posted by czeskleba on Hoffman says "it is authorized" and it's "sort of like an authorized bootleg." I trust czeskleba's information. He's worked on Replacements projects before, is cited in liner notes of them, etc. What he says here has been carefully stated by someone involved in this project, and in the absence of other information, I'll believe it, as far as it goes. He also says "but not all interested parties were fully on board with the idea, so a decision was made" for a limited release. And "a decision was made" is a nicely passive construction. It leaves unclear who made the decision. So this release seems to be in a very specific kind of gray area. The phrase "not...fully on board" is the sticky one. It could mean someone, let's say PW himself, said "I'm not crazy about this, I don't like it, but whatever, go ahead, as long as it's not a big thing." Or it could mean something less affirming than that. Then again, "not...fully on board" does imply "at least a little on board," i.e. not willing to raise a stink or a big objection. So that puts this in a different category from the weird unauthorized things that pop up on Amazon from time to time. This is very speculative. There's no grey area in something being authorized or official. But... It's possible one or both of them said "whatever go ahead but keep my name off it" sure, but that gets real murky real quick as far as the money goes. It sells WAY more if Paul and Tommy sign off and why would they ever agree to a half-ass, poorly promoted, god-even-knows release? I'd be really surprised if Paul has anything to do with this. There's better things out there that he's sitting on that would fetch a bigger payday and represent the band better than their first show in a couple decades. Tommy could be game for anything, that's the way this band has worked since the reunion. He's not holding anything up, even if he doesn't think it's great.
It's also possible that SiriusXM owns the recording (I think that's who broadcast the concert if memory serves? I could be wrong, but I do remember listening to it live) and they're the ones who didn't sign off, and that's why this isn't authorized. It will be very interesting to hear what it sounds like. If it was sourced from a satellite radio or web broadcast it will be obvious.
To me this is exactly one of those weird Amazon things, like the 2xLP 91 Grant Park show or those Hüsker live LPs that are popping up. Some dude finances a vinyl run from a decent sounding broadcast recording with some half-ass jacket art and knows he'll break even or better and won't get sued. Either way, seems like we've beat this to death, unless some news from official sources comes out or someone actually gets their hands on it and reports back about how it sounds and looks. Is the cover photo even from that show?
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Jun 17, 2022 8:11:32 GMT -5
In a perfect world this would be dumped online for free. I understand being upset about random parties making money off someone else's work... I regularly see idiots pay 100s of dollars for terrible Prince boots that rehash the same shit over and over again and it's so frustrating to know that there are actually people who fork over money for slop like that. That being said, the only reason I'm buying this is because it's something new, just as I've bought the official sets. I wouldn't pay a dime for this (and most official releases from most artists I wouldn't pay a dime for either unless it was something I really wanted to support a la Mats archival work or a very small artist), but if I don't buy a copy I doubt anyone else will transfer so I might as well! I'm just over people bickering about music and legacy and all this pious shit about what's right and who does what, I just like hearing new things and I don't see the point in people tsk-tsk'ing what is clearly a net gain for the fan community regardless of if the man who probably made more on that reunion tour than you and I will make in 50 years gets his 10 grand from the sale of vinyl records. I've done a lot in the past to share music with people that otherwise would be left to languish so maybe I'm biased.
I get all this, and I'm not tsk-tsking anyone, merely trying to present facts. I can't sit here and say I've never bought or sold a bootleg recording when I was younger, though as time went on and I learned more about that side of the business, and the other side too - where live recordings are easily shared for the love of the music with no money changing hands, I gained a different outlook.
I also don't personally believe that how much money someone has should have any bearing whatsoever on their rights to their property. Whether Paul made $50 or $500k on that reunion tour has nothing to do with the ethics of music piracy and his rights to control and make money from his brand. The same applies to how many legitimate recordings a person has bought in the past or supported an artist. That's super important, and it's great, but shopping at a store for 40 years doesn't make stealing a pack of gum from them ok. These justifications don't work for me, personally.
Buying this album isn't going to make anyone rich or send anyone to the poor house or stop the band from doing whatever they are going to do next. It's not that important or big. If it makes someone happy....they should buy it. My only point is that consumers and fans should be objective and know what they're getting, and not take what's being presented at face value, because it's deceptive, it's horse shit, and people are being mislead. I'm just trying to state facts, not pass judgement. That's it, just be aware.
xx
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Jun 16, 2022 21:44:34 GMT -5
I sincerely doubt that this didn't go through some band member or someone very close to them, I'm guessing Tommy. There is no evidence whatsoever that this has the blessing of anyone in the band. It's not even close to their MO. "Someone close to them" or even Tommy himself doesn't matter. If Paul and Tommy don't both sign off, it's not an authorized release. It's a bootleg. Unless there's something official from the band, which there isn't yet, it's not really debatable.
Honestly who cares, if they want to leave money on the table then whatever, I'm thrilled this is coming out just as much as I'm thrilled Rhino is doing what they're doing. We can't all wait for a rate of 1 or no releases per year to get all this stuff out, this would've been a great avenue for one-off shows like this. I care, actually, though I know I'm in the minority. This has nothing to do with what Rhino is doing or how the frequency suits the fancy of impatient fans. It's the people who wrote and made the music having no control over what's presented, how it's presented, or who's getting paid.
Well if that turns out to be the case, it really sucks. Again, my assumption was that RSD only promotes legit stuff, maybe that's not always the case. I only hope it doesn't discourage Paul & Tommy from continuing to dig around for lost live shows, demos or outtakes, I'm really enjoying the box sets Rhino has been putting out and I'd hate to see them put the brakes on any future authorized releases. RSD isn't promoting this, it's not on "the list", it's just part of a new-releases feed they got from a distributor, probably automatically generated to their site. The exact same verbiage is on other sites too. Anyone can slap some text together that says "authorized" and get it included on that feed. It's been going on for decades, I doubt it will have any impact on future official releases.
Dig what you dig, it's not the end of the world, just know what's going on.
Boston Calling will probably be the next one.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Jun 16, 2022 16:54:10 GMT -5
It's not legit ("authorized") if the band isn't behind it, and they're clearly not. If they were getting paid they'd be promoting it on their channels. As of this afternoon you couldn't even find out what the cover looks like. Calling it "authorized" in a press release is shady af, but reels in the buyers.
I'm sure it's the radio broadcast, very similar to the Grant Park `91 bootlegs that are out there everywhere. Basically someone funded a vinyl run of a decent recording knowing they'd make their money back and also knowing they most likely won't get sued. The band has no say and doesn't get a dime from these releases.
Just educated conjecture, of course. xx
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Apr 28, 2022 19:49:29 GMT -5
The new documentary about Jay Bennett by Gorman Bechard is really great. It shows the other side of the incredible musician and songwriter who who was so poorly and unfairly portrayed in the Wilco movie. There are Westerberg and Bob Stinson mentions, and shots of and a few words about the Chris Mars artwork for the Titanic Love Affair album.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Apr 28, 2022 19:46:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads up. "Had the band switched out a couple songs on Tim — dropping “Lay Down Clown” and “Dose of Thunder” in favor of the original “Can’t Hardly Wait” and “Nowhere Is My Home” — and had a better cover photo then I think it would be head and shoulders above LIB and in the discussion of greatest albums of all time, which it still should be." I'm definitely going to make this playlist and see how it feels.
I don't think it would have been better than Let it Be. Bob Stinson's limited contributions and the weak mix will always relegate it to second for me. Even though some of the material on Tim is their best, the lack of Bob's influence and the production just restrained a band who shouldn't have been restrained.
Had they let Alex Chilton produce the whole record or anyone but Tommy Ramone mix it would have helped too. NIMH is great, and I'd take any version of CHW over the PTMM verison, but neither really fits the sequencing of Tim as it was mixed. Let it Be just encompasses everything that was great about them, and Tim does too, just not quite as much. A remix of Tim would be great to hear.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Mar 10, 2022 8:01:24 GMT -5
Hello. Have recently been fascinated by the journey DTAS took, as documented by the album itself as well as Dead Man's Pop... Wanted to pick the brains of people who have been around a lot longer than me. It's my understanding that very rough mixes of DTAS were done by Wallace shortly after they had finished tracking. The mixes on disc 1 of DMP are a 2019 approximation that, while very good, leaves me wondering what the original mixdowns sounded like as well as how far they went/were presented in between the record going from Wallace to Alge. As far as I'm aware these have never circulated in any wide capacity, though in doing some searching through this forum I've seen someone say Paul indicated at one point they were "out there" which, setting aside the veracity of that statement, makes me wonder to what extent they were distributed among industry/label people and if a set has privately circulated. Is this something anyone knows anything more concrete about, has, or has heard? It would be so interesting to compare the originals roughs to DMP and the released album. If by "out there" Paul meant in the hands of the fans, I'd be surprised. They would have been a really hot commodity, with all the folklore around them, and while there were people way deeper into tape/CDR trading than I was, I never saw mention of them. Seems like somehow they've managed to keep a few things out of those circles, which was smart, and I expect there's still a few surprises that will surface.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Feb 27, 2022 9:28:28 GMT -5
The thing is that the way the music industry paid its artists, many of them were buying cocaine, luxury cars, jewelry, etc all on credit (advances), and not in real earned cash. In addition to their coke and cars, they had to pay for recording costs, marketing, "breakage", MTV videos, tour costs, lawyers, agents, etc. all from their royalties. This is why the Goo Goo Dolls, who sold a shit ton of A Boy Named Goo, didn't make a dime from the multi-million selling album. Same with Soul Asylum's big 90s album. Even though they had huge records, their royalties could not cover their costs and living expenses. Tom Petty had the same problem early in his career as well, until he filed for bankruptcy, keeping the wolves at bay. Van Halen were close to a million dollars in debt when they started recording their 2nd album, and their debut album sold millions. John Doe had a steady music career, but he admitted he did not make any money until he started to get roles in movies, a guaranteed salary for actual work. The music industry is a shitty one, corrupt and predatory, and in the modern digital age, more so. A fraction of a penny for a stream- pitiful. More one-sided than the old days of vinyl and CDs, with cigar chomping execs, which were shitty business practices to begin with. Now it is young high tech types controlling things now. Can't argue with any of this. I'd just add that the bands could control the hemorrhaging of money but they're usually young and naive and so caught up in the excitement of it all - the buses, recording budgets, drugs, girls/boys - that they just roll with it until it inevitably crashes, and they're back in the van, playing smaller clubs, and sharing rooms. There's some good reading in Bob Mould's book about his time with Virgin Records and and the way money was spent.
The Tom Petty situation was especially difficult because he couldn't even release new music for a couple key years to make money/pay off debts because of legal wrangling. The fact that he got through that and had an amazing career says something about his talent and business savvy.
Goo Goo Dolls cashed in on Iris. They've somehow managed to remain viable, playing bigger shows, having the odd AOR hit over the years. Bands like Soul Asylum didn't fare quite as well for whatever reason, though the early trajectory was similar.
And I'm not surprised X never made money. They weren't exactly mainstream. Can't find figures, but I would imagine they sold less than The Replacements.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Feb 26, 2022 11:43:16 GMT -5
I think Paul's biggest hurdle is the mental weight of dealing with the expectations of his public (fans, peers, and press), not his desire to create. I think that weight is what's behind his disdain of playing live, his lack of any desire to do anything "conventionally," and his refusal to release the reunion DVD from St. Paul. I also think the basement recordings are a passive-aggressive response to those expectations and his veiled attempt to thwart them, rather than the courage [edit:] strength it might take to meet them or even ignore them and just play. Artists like Dylan, Simon, Springsteen have the ability to provide a legitimate product (releases, tours, etc) despite similar, even greater expectations on them, but everyone's different, everyone has their own demons and hangups, and I think Paul just can't deal with the idea that he'll never add up to the high bar that's been placed in front of him. Reading between the lines of his words and actions in the last 20 years, and his obsession with the self-sabotage of success from the very start seem to point this way. As always, strictly speculation.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Feb 23, 2022 20:56:01 GMT -5
Time has a funny way of changing things. People run out of money, get nostalgic, get motivated by age, find a late-life burst of creativity, run out of money...did I mention money? Who can say for sure what will happen. I don't think he wants to do anything that involves the public, but I wouldn't rule it out. I certainly wouldn't put money on it.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Feb 20, 2022 15:41:16 GMT -5
Jer, how would you describe the sound of The Bleeding Hearts?
I've never heard The Bleeding Hearts, except by name. If this was ever leaked or anything, I never got ears on it. I have the Static Taxi disc, which Bob played on. Didn't love it, but haven't revisited it in many years.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Feb 17, 2022 16:01:09 GMT -5
This was predictable ( yep). Of course I'll get it, but I do wish they'd just offer the vinyl option with the original release.
`mats fans will also be interested to pick up RSD releases from The Bleeding Hearts (Bob Stinson's band) and the original Golden Smog EP (Chris Mars on drums).
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Feb 3, 2022 12:16:56 GMT -5
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Dec 22, 2021 8:27:34 GMT -5
Very cool when stuff like this surfaces. Loved the Detroit talk!
Thanks for sharing!
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Dec 10, 2021 11:49:57 GMT -5
Latest Episode of Ted Lasso on Apple TV (S2Ep9) has a quick clip of “Nightclub Jitters”. Wow. Yep, just got caught up and thought I'd seen this. Great scene, great episode, great show. "Good payday for Paul." my wife said.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Nov 8, 2021 11:21:43 GMT -5
Yeah. Sad. You can definitely tell good nights vs bad nights from his singing. Sad? Looked pretty damn fun to me. I found this to be pretty typical of a "good" performance from this lineup. I don't think Tommy comes off as wasted - he's coherent and on time and pitch as much as he ever is on a good night. Not much slurring or laziness. The band is on fire, as always, but he's not struggling to keep up or holding the energy back, IMO.
Sometimes, when all you have to go by is a record or being in the audience at a live show, and you hear a "live in the studio" or a straight soundboard feed, they're really unforgiving. KEXP has it down for sure, but it's very "live" and any flaws present aren't covered up by recording/mixing techniques or a concert PA system.
That said, there have been consistency issues in recent years, and some sad performances for sure.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Oct 23, 2021 9:55:07 GMT -5
Mine shipped on Thursday, a couple days after the label was printed. Rhino gets just a little better with each release. First it was a couple months after DMP, then a couple/few weeks after PTMM, now it's at least shipping *around* the release date. Seems the pre-orders are the lowest priority, which sucks. And the Covid excuse doesn't fly when record stores are sure to have it on release day to get the $$ from the people who didn't pre-order. I expect they'll have it down by the time the last box comes out.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Sept 18, 2021 6:32:52 GMT -5
There is a podcast called LIFERS hosted by Local H frontman Scott Lucas. A recent episode is an interview of Michael Bland. Insights about Prince and the Minneapolis scene, including stories about Westerberg and the Replacements. A good listen. We opened for Soul Asylum (and Local H) in Detroit last week and talked quite a bit to Mr. Bland. He's a great guy. He said he gets asked about Paul constantly. I'll def check this out.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Sept 8, 2021 12:58:02 GMT -5
Man and his solo on they’re blind just killed on the dmp comp. I agree totally, but I also liked the original release solo a lot too. DMP gets the edge, but the solo on the original-release was a little more rockin'. That song was the biggest highlight of DMP for me. Slim related, here's a bit I've probably posted before about the time I met him.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Sept 4, 2021 9:32:44 GMT -5
I didn't post that old interview to bash Paul or anything. I certainly don't want to throw his words back into his face... Yea all good points, and my intent was not to pile on, but more to lend the opinion that (again, like Pete) Paul was just kinda thinking out loud, and that everyone probably has thoughts like that from time to time, but most people don't have a microphone in their face and most probably realize it was a selfish, stupid way to look at a situation and think better of it before they voice it. It seems to happen more often with people who get the `amazing songwriter` tag, and probably ties back to the same insecurities that make them great songwriters in the first place.
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