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Post by curmudgeonman on Sept 30, 2023 7:52:17 GMT -5
A quick note; I listened to the remastered disc and compared it to the previous reissue CD from years ago and the new one is better on my ears, less abrasive, less fatiguing and a tiny bit warmer.
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Oct 1, 2023 8:57:00 GMT -5
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Post by mudbacktodirt on Oct 1, 2023 14:46:01 GMT -5
Wow, they really put a free version up quickly through YouTube. Normally, I'd think they would wait a while to see how many people buy it first. Oh well. Thanks for the link. |
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Post by ClamsCasino on Oct 3, 2023 17:26:59 GMT -5
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Post by jason066 on Oct 5, 2023 16:16:33 GMT -5
Very Nice, hoping Let It Be is next and the Live album for RSD in April.
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markc
Dances With Posts
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Post by markc on Oct 6, 2023 16:39:54 GMT -5
Honestly, the two albums that needed to be re-mixed are done, and I'm happy. There's nothing wrong with the production on Let It Be or any other 'Mats album - they all sound great.
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who?
Star Scout
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Post by who? on Oct 6, 2023 18:13:54 GMT -5
Honestly, the two albums that needed to be re-mixed are done, and I'm happy. There's nothing wrong with the production on Let It Be or any other 'Mats album - they all sound great. 100% |
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Post by curmudgeonman on Oct 6, 2023 20:25:32 GMT -5
Honestly, the two albums that needed to be re-mixed are done, and I'm happy. There's nothing wrong with the production on Let It Be or any other 'Mats album - they all sound great. 100% THIS. For me, Tim was the one that needed to be fixed. And I'm very happy with the final results. Don't Tell A Soul was icing on the cake. I am fine with the Twin Tone stuff, and PTMM and All Shook Down as far as mixes. To be perfectly frank, the extra outtakes are interesting, but only for a moment. I always go back to original song lineups on each album. |
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Post by con on Oct 7, 2023 8:48:41 GMT -5
These remix/reimagining projects are great fun—hard to knock anything ‘Mats-related—but I too always come back to the original records, warts and all. They’re the talismans that snookered me into the band’s world. The “fixed” records, as neat as they are, just don’t have the same conjuring effect. They’re novel, sure, but the older I get the more wary I am of revisiting the past to “fix” anything. Let it be. There comes a point you really shouldn’t be ringing up that old flame.
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bobb
First Class Scout
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Post by bobb on Oct 7, 2023 9:47:28 GMT -5
Only Tim and DTAS have had the remake type of thing, PTMM and Sorry Ma were deluxe versions. I wouldn’t expect any of the remaining to be something other than a deluxe version with alt versions, outtakes, or live. I do prefer the new versions of Tim and Dead Man’s Pop but can see I will listen to the original Tim at least some times
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markc
Dances With Posts
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Post by markc on Oct 7, 2023 21:31:29 GMT -5
These remix/reimagining projects are great fun—hard to knock anything ‘Mats-related—but I too always come back to the original records, warts and all. They’re the talismans that snookered me into the band’s world. The “fixed” records, as neat as they are, just don’t have the same conjuring effect. They’re novel, sure, but the older I get the more wary I am of revisiting the past to “fix” anything. Let it be. There comes a point you really shouldn’t be ringing up that old flame. Well, I have to disagree. Tim absolutely benefits from the long-overdue remix, far superior to the original in my opinion. And I'm super glad this production issue was fixed. |
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Oct 8, 2023 11:56:03 GMT -5
Agree that there's no need to remix anything else, not that I wouldn't be interested to hear it if they did. LIB, Hootenanny and ASD don't sound dated, they're not all waxed up in reverb or other tricks. They sound like a band, not a recording of a band. I hope they each get the box set treatment - kinda feels like they should. And being weary "fixing" the past is a perfectly valid perspective, but there's zero harm done as long as the original mixes are still available. I'll likely rarely or never listen to DTAS or Tim again, opting for the remixes, but I totally get the urge to write it off and stick with the originals.
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Post by con on Oct 20, 2023 8:15:53 GMT -5
The clown honk at the very end of “I’ll Buy” is a bit buried in the Stasium mix, isn’t it? Should’ve cranked that bit to eleven!
Also, I’m having a moment: Did Tommy Ramone also produce Tim? Was he the guy in the studio saying, “Keep that take” and “Play that part twice” or whatever? Whoever it was really had an ear for recognizing magic, especially in Paul’s vocal takes, when it was captured on tape. The versions that ended up on the record just brim with magic—I can’t think of a better word. I love how the wheels threaten to come off at any moment. (Guess you could say that about a lot of the band’s work.) Do we know how much of Tim is overdubs? Some of Bob’s hellfire… Paul’s vox?
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Post by curmudgeonman on Oct 20, 2023 11:38:25 GMT -5
Also, I’m having a moment: Did Tommy Ramone also produce Tim? Was he the guy in the studio saying, “Keep that take” and “Play that part twice” or whatever? Whoever it was really had an ear for recognizing magic, especially in Paul’s vocal takes, when it was captured on tape. The versions that ended up on the record just brim with magic—I can’t think of a better word. I love how the wheels threaten to come off at any moment. (Guess you could say that about a lot of the band’s work.) Do we know how much of Tim is overdubs? Some of Bob’s hellfire… Paul’s vox? Yes, Erdelyi was the producer; he and engineer Steve Fjelstad (who produced/engineered most of the Twin Tone records) were the ones in the control room while Stinson Westerberg and Mars were in the studio. So yes, Erdelyi made creative decisions as far as which take to use, giving his opinions, made decisions on musicianship, tempo, sound, etc. while Fjelstad primarily engineered the board, ran the tape machines, etc. And since nobody was available to do the job, Erdelyi ended up mixing also. All of the songs basic tracks (drums, bass, one guitar) were recorded live in the studio, partitions separating the drums and amps, but they could still see and interact with each other. Later, guitar overdubs by both Westerberg and Bob Stinson were recorded as well as the vocal tracks, except for Here Comes A Regular and the Chilton produced Left of the Dial; both songs used Westerberg's vocals recorded live with the instruments. It sounds like Erdelyi kept a somewhat tight ship recording Tim, a more disciplined band than in subsequent albums PTMM and DTAS, where their substance abuse and self destructive behavior became legendary. |
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Post by con on Oct 20, 2023 13:41:45 GMT -5
Groovy thank you.
Speaking of engineering, the new mix definitely vindicates Fjelstad (i.e., the complaints with the original mix are definitively now a factor of mixing decisions and not issues with the raw recordings).
Producing is such a behind-the-scenes art—I rarely think about the producer’s decisions when listening to music, unless there is a glaring contrast with an artist’s previous record, a bizarre instrumental or sonic palette, etc. But I’m so impressed with Erdelyi’s work on Tim. Westerberg and the band probably deserve the bulk of the credit for the arrangements and the creative direction of the record, but I have the feeling Tim could have been a wild and woolly, chaotic and grittier document. (See the electric version of “Can’t Hardly Wait,” the “Kiss Me On the Bus” demo, etc.) Doesn’t it seem like Erdelyi, at least in some instances, pushed them towards a pop sound? Maybe it was Seymour Stein. At any rate, my gut tells me the band’s instinct was to bring the rock, and that it took a kind of genius to hear these songs and argue for something tighter. Let’s turn it down here. Let’s try an acoustic guitar here. Bob, sit this one out.
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Post by mudbacktodirt on Oct 24, 2023 15:47:45 GMT -5
Because I'm old fashioned I wish the remixed Tim and remixed Don't Tell a Soul were released as a 1-CD version. Probably not much money in that nowadays though.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Oct 26, 2023 15:59:09 GMT -5
Tommy must’ve been pissed that Lay It Down Clown made the cut instead of Having Fun.
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bobb
First Class Scout
Posts: 126
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Post by bobb on Oct 27, 2023 1:07:14 GMT -5
Tommy must’ve been pissed that Lay It Down Clown made the cut instead of Having Fun. While the dislike of “Lay It Down Clown” and its undeserving place on Tim are well established on here and elsewhere AND I do like the feel and music of “Having Fun” I don’t think I would love how it would fit on Tim. Musically it’s a really cool tune but lyrically there’s nothing that catches my ear. I don’t know why I’m going to post this but…I am not saying “Lay It Down Clown” is a superior song but I don’t skip it and if it wasn’t on Tim and I was just now hearing it for the first time I’d probably be wondering why it didn’t make the cut instead of “Having Fun” if that had been. 🤷🏻♂️ i mean I still get a kick out of the couplet “skinny as a rail and ya think you got what it takes, the only exercise ya ever get is the shakes” I don’t think “Having Fun” would add anything “special“ to the album that “Lay It Down Clown” does… And that there may be one of the most ridiculous sentences ever written on this site! |
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Oct 27, 2023 6:21:25 GMT -5
Tommy must’ve been pissed that Lay It Down Clown made the cut instead of Having Fun. While the dislike of “Lay It Down Clown” and its undeserving place on Tim are well established on here and elsewhere AND I do like the feel and music of “Having Fun” I don’t think I would love how it would fit on Tim. Musically it’s a really cool tune but lyrically there’s nothing that catches my ear. I don’t know why I’m going to post this but…I am not saying “Lay It Down Clown” is a superior song but I don’t skip it and if it wasn’t on Tim and I was just now hearing it for the first time I’d probably be wondering why it didn’t make the cut instead of “Having Fun” if that had been. 🤷🏻♂️ i mean I still get a kick out of the couplet “skinny as a rail and ya think you got what it takes, the only exercise ya ever get is the shakes” I don’t think “Having Fun” would add anything “special“ to the album that “Lay It Down Clown” does… And that there may be one of the most ridiculous sentences ever written on this site! For me, outtakes are almost always outtakes for a reason. There are very few exceptions. Not sure I can think of a single example where an outtake would fit better on an album, any album by any artist, better than what made the final cut. Even "Nowhere Is My Home," which I love, would feel out of place on Tim. It's subjective of course, and by the time we hear outtakes the album is usually ingrained in us for years, so it's hard to conceptualize differently.
I never had a problem with "Lay It Down Clown." Always loved the slide guitar and though it brought some energy to the record (esp the original mix). It's not A-list `mats material, but it wouldn't be panned on a Georgia Satellites record at all. One of the things that makes LIB the best Replacements record to me is the diversity of material and how there's something on there that represents every aspect of the band. Tim is less that - but LIDC represents the off-the-rails aspect better than anything else on there, and arguably the last time they put anything quite that rowdy on tape. Of course Tim is great and justifiably lots of peoples' favorite for different reasons - mostly the consistent quality of the material. Can't argue that, but LIDC was the last recorded stand of Bob Stinson at his most chaotic.
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Post by FreeRider on Oct 27, 2023 14:22:14 GMT -5
well, as I posted last month or so, this excerpt explains how Paul feels: an old SPIN interview with him - Folker (2004): “Every one of these records makes me think of someone. I thought ‘Jingle’ was kinda good. I can’t remember any of the other songs because they’re s**t. I’ve learned that there’s a reason you don’t remember the ones you’ve forgotten.” www.spin.com/2016/03/paul-westerberg-i-dont-cares-replacements-interview/ |
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