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Post by FreeRider on Feb 23, 2023 10:33:35 GMT -5
I've been off the board here for awhile, giving the Mats and Paul stuff a break. Haven't listened much to his stuff for awhile and just slowly started going back to some Paul stuff. And then I stumbled upon this vid, an extended interview from Gorman with Dave, the full interview he did for Color Me Obsessed. Dunno if this has been posted before, but I like how Dave touches upon and defends Don't Tell a Soul, says Paul was the Bob Dylan for our generation, their influences on others, Cobain, Paul's polarizing singing voice, a funny story about running into Joe Strummer and him wanting Dave to pass along a message to Paul....interesting stuff from Dave. youtu.be/mVLuvTnmE9Q |
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Feb 23, 2023 13:50:28 GMT -5
What a great, unique perspective this guy has. Not only a superfan from the earliest days, but later in Paul’s band immediately afterwards (and eventually in an iteration of the band itself). Plus, he’s got the perspective of being the same age and coming up in the same circles and scenes, eventually surpassed by the cult of the Replacements. He’s also got the perspective of being a musician and a studio rat, “both sides of the glass” he said, so he’s got insight about how making records works, and what was done and why. The Goo Goo Dolls stuff... Just the perfect guy for that film. The inside perspective about stuff like how Paul felt about the records, or how when they didn’t have a green room on that 14 Songs tour, and they’d be on the bus before a show, they’d crank Purple Rain or Never Mind the Bullocks right before hitting the stage. I love stuff like that. I can almost imagine how those equally powerful but very different precursors affected the performances that followed. The Strummer story is pure gold! That documentary took a lot of hits. I know a film about a band without the participation, or even the music, of the band, is a tough sell, but the insight of people like this tell the story in a way the actual players never could. I got a lot of value out of it, and I think it’s as good a reference as any about what it was like.
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Post by FreeRider on Feb 24, 2023 9:17:31 GMT -5
yeah, I thought it was pretty insightful as well, coming from a fan/player/friend of the band. I like his perspective on the compromises Paul was faced with on the mixing of DTAS, talking about Goo Goo Dolls, Cobain and Courtney....
What's interesting is that Dave Grohl grew up around my area, he still comes back to the DC/Northern VA area. It would be cool to run into him and ask him out right, "Did you and Kurt ever like the Replacements?"
As far as the doc? It was ok but the folks close to the band, like Minehan, have the best stories and insights as they knew the band at a particular point in time and can recall things lost to fuzzy memories and the mists of time...
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Post by curmudgeonman on Feb 25, 2023 11:07:45 GMT -5
What's interesting is that Dave Grohl grew up around my area, he still comes back to the DC/Northern VA area. It would be cool to run into him and ask him out right, "Did you and Kurt ever like the Replacements?" Was a fan of the Foo Fighter when they came out with their first couple of albums, but honestly, aside from the radio hits, I haven't really listened to them in years. I loved his drumming with Nirvana, my favorite musician from that band. I did see his film about Sound City studio, and part of the movie involved him buying the original Neve recording console to install in his personal recording studio in Los Angeles ("606"). Here is a pic of The 'Mats rehearsing in Studio 606, I think for their reunion tour:  And here is a pic of Grohl around the same time period:  Years ago I remember seeing part of a Cobain interview, claiming that he was not a fan of The Replacements, but then in a Courtney Love print interview, she stated that The 'Mats were a band that everybody considered having the most integrity, and were a huge influence on everyone in their scene, also including Cobain. I also remember back when Westerberg was recording his 14 Songs album, he was in town in San Francisco staying at the Phoenix Hotel and Cobain and Love were also staying there as well. I used to live in the Bay Area at that time and heard thru the grapevine that scenesters hanging out in the lobby were amused that Cobain was going out of his way to avoid running into Westerberg, who I'm sure had no desire to interact with him as well. And of course the video clip of Paul recalling their elevator ride confirms this. But it seemed obvious to the scenesters that Cobain knew who Westerberg was. |
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Post by FreeRider on Feb 25, 2023 20:35:11 GMT -5
hey, thanks for that info and pics....I liked the first two Foo Fighters releases and then my interest kind of trailed off and on a bit. Saw them twice, once when Dave and the band played at the Patriot Center on George Mason University campus in northern VA. It was a fun concert, good stuff.
Weird how Cobain kind of ignored the Replacements or took on a position that he didn't like them. Would still like to run into Grohl one of these days. Many years ago, a friend of mine saw him on the DC Metro subway and it looked like Grohl was coming back from the airport, he was with his girlfriend at the time with some luggage, and my buddy didn't bother him.
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Post by curmudgeonman on Feb 26, 2023 18:46:42 GMT -5
Weird how Cobain kind of ignored the Replacements or took on a position that he didn't like them. Yeah, this is old ground covered in past years. But maybe Cobain felt insulted that Westerberg was dismissive of him and his band, sometimes in a cruel way. In this interview, Westerberg states that he knows for a fact that Cobain thought World Class Fad was written about him. Not as dramatic as Ryan Adam's feud with Westerberg, but it is quite possible that Cobain was pissed at Paul and decided to not deal with him, and not give him any press. And we all know Westerberg was no diplomat. |
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Feb 26, 2023 21:45:58 GMT -5
...Westerberg states that he knows for a fact that Cobain thought World Class Fad was written about him. Not as dramatic as Ryan Adam's feud with Westerberg, but it is quite possible that Cobain was pissed at Paul and decided to not deal with him, and not give him any press. And we all know Westerberg was no diplomat.
It's possible. We also know that Paul has a long history of speaking from the cuff, sometimes telling a story that is more interesting than true, and occasionally coming back later and completely contradicting himself. No shame in that, and it's not uncommon with people like Paul and Kurt. It keeps people (like us) on their toes.
The World Class Fad thing could have come to him from a trusted, mutual friend, or it could have been a fleeting thought he'd had that day, or something inbetween. Or maybe it was actually about Kurt and he was feeling guilty about it and didn't know how to process that emotion or feeling (ref: Trouble Boys, cover to cover). These topics are fun, but it's just folklore at this point, especially given Paul's flippancy. Maybe there's some truth in there, maybe a lot, maybe none.
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Post by FreeRider on Feb 27, 2023 13:33:35 GMT -5
oh yeah, well, all true---his off the cuff remarks. So yeah, I could see Kurt wasn't real keen on Paul slagging on him. I know post Cobain, he said he wasn't a fan of Nirvana, saying it had "too much plod" in it, IIRC. But I don't know exactly what he said when Cobain was still alive that might have pissed Kurt off.
As for the World Class Fad stuff, yeah, who knows? I never really cared much as to who it was about and trying to decipher what Paul meant. I just liked the guitar parts!
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Post by Hagbard on Feb 28, 2023 4:56:48 GMT -5
Nirvana’s former manager is interviewed in Colour Me Obsessed.
If I remember correctly, she says something along the lines of that in the early days her and Nirvana used to say to each other, “let’s just get as big as The Replacements.” She goes onto say that they watched The Mats on SNL and worshipped Paul Westerberg.
She also said that if you put Husker Du and The Mats in a blender, you’d get 90% of the Seattle sound.
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Post by firespirit on Feb 28, 2023 6:00:33 GMT -5
In that World Class Fad music video there's a scene where Westerberg is singing & playing guitar in front of a mirror making him appear left handed. There's also that line "I believe these stars are starting to shoot". I could see how Kurt would think those were aimed at him....
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 1, 2023 15:15:26 GMT -5
it's funny because I never, ever, thought to connect the song to Cobain. I mean, things like Paul in the mirror and then extrapolating that the image is lefthanded, so it must be a jab at Cobain? I just didn't take it that far ever to think it was a jab at the guy. And I guess Cobain was super sensitive enough to think it was a pot shot about him....who knows?
If anything, I thought it was more a song about Paul, himself, the pitfalls of fame, stardom, celebrity, etc. Anyway, I looked up the music video to check it out again and I liked the part of him kicking the drum kit's cymbals.
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Mar 1, 2023 16:10:26 GMT -5
I think those things are a stretch to tie to Kurt. It doesn't even make sense with the song - who wanted " it" less than Kurt Cobain? Dude hated being a star and was clearly miserable in the spotlight. Nirvana never did anything outside of their... integrity (for lack of a better word) in an attempt to chase the spotlight or some golden ring of fame. On the contrary, they did the opposite. FreeRider's thought about Paul looking in the mirror is more likely - after all The Replacements attempted (albeit, half-assed) to take that leap with DTAS and clearly let others dictate their direction with the mix and the Petty tour, and then tried (again, half-assed) to follow their trail of crumbs back with ASD. The narrative fits the song a lot better.
Still, I think there's a good chance we're reading way too much into it. It could just be a fleeting look at the endless stream of polished garbage on MTV in 1993 (the runoff from Nirvana, way more than Nirvana itself) and a jaded guy who's been there and back just throwing out a warning to not lose yourself in that quest to make it.
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 1, 2023 19:19:49 GMT -5
who was playing the drums in the video?? Was that Josh Freese? I don't know why I laughed and found it funny when Paul kicks the cymbals and Josh does that prat fall thing off the kit. At the 2:44 mark youtu.be/RqqDBSV04FcI'm probably reading too much into this as well, but it just occurred to me the video illustrates the phoniness or fake stuff about stardom and celebrity....Paul is seen in the hotel room rockin' out, and then the camera POV pulls back and you see he's on a film set, they break the 4th wall. like it's all an illusion. I like the Gibson he's playing for the video.... |
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Post by curmudgeonman on Mar 1, 2023 19:49:07 GMT -5
I think those things are a stretch to tie to Kurt. It doesn't even make sense with the song - who wanted " it" less than Kurt Cobain? Dude hated being a star and was clearly miserable in the spotlight. Nirvana never did anything outside of their... integrity (for lack of a better word) in an attempt to chase the spotlight or some golden ring of fame. On the contrary, they did the opposite. From the articles I read and interviews during his creative run and after his death, I think it is a mistake to think Cobain didn't want fame, it is actually quite the opposite. According to his manager Danny Goldberg, Cobain worked hard at it, had his hands in all aspects of the bands marketing; he designed their t-shirts, kept track of their sales and MTV plays, consulting in the choice of singles, involved in their bios, etc. etc. Very much unlike Westerberg, who didn't give a shit or didn't know how. His wife Courtney Love stated that Cobain indeed wanted to be a rock star. And his appearance on SNL was markedly different than The 'Mats; Cobain reportedly consulted with the producers to get permission to smash their instruments during their performance (The Replacements never would have done that). Even towards the end of his life, he wasn't terribly frightened of fame per se, he just wanted to change gears more towards what Michael Stipe did (no slouch in self-marketing), and have that kind of fame and career. His #1 problem was drug addiction, pure and simple, and lots of it. Like John Lydon/ Rotten stated, he could have stepped off the merry go round and taken a hiatus similar to Bob Dylan, Cat Stevens or Laura Nyro, but the drugs really did a number on his psyche, and he couldn't stop the runaway train. The guy definitely had mental issues, and coupled with heroin and valium, the man was prone to tremendous depression. I don't think Westerberg had Cobain in mind when he wrote World Class Fad, but it seems everyone else did. |
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Mar 2, 2023 13:17:41 GMT -5
From the articles I read and interviews during his creative run and after his death, I think it is a mistake to think Cobain didn't want fame, it is actually quite the opposite. According to his manager Danny Goldberg, Cobain worked hard at it, had his hands in all aspects of the bands marketing; he designed their t-shirts, kept track of their sales and MTV plays, consulting in the choice of singles, involved in their bios, etc. etc. Very much unlike Westerberg, who didn't give a shit or didn't know how. His wife Courtney Love stated that Cobain indeed wanted to be a rock star. And his appearance on SNL was markedly different than The 'Mats; Cobain reportedly consulted with the producers to get permission to smash their instruments during their performance (The Replacements never would have done that). Even towards the end of his life, he wasn't terribly frightened of fame per se, he just wanted to change gears more towards what Michael Stipe did (no slouch in self-marketing), and have that kind of fame and career. His #1 problem was drug addiction, pure and simple, and lots of it. Like John Lydon/ Rotten stated, he could have stepped off the merry go round and taken a hiatus similar to Bob Dylan, Cat Stevens or Laura Nyro, but the drugs really did a number on his psyche, and he couldn't stop the runaway train. The guy definitely had mental issues, and coupled with heroin and valium, the man was prone to tremendous depression. I don't think Westerberg had Cobain in mind when he wrote World Class Fad, but it seems everyone else did.
All fair points, and well taken, thanks.
Kurt may have wanted to be a rock star in some respects, I don't doubt that, but my point was intended to be that he wasn't a wannabe chaser of fame and follower of tends (ie - World Class Fad). This is what I see when I hear that song - bands that trailed the grunge explosion around that time (`93) as cheap, watered down versions of that great first wave, which was led (in popularity at least) by Nirvana. Alternative music in general - whether you were emulating Nirvana or The Cure or whatever. There was money to be made and the fads/copycats were easy to spot, especially by a guy who influenced half of them and didn't have much to show for it except some knowledge.
Like Paul, he had this albatross of impossible expectations that made him miserable. It was compounded by the commercial and cultural success he had. He hated that part and what came with it - from the types of people who were now coming to his shows to the never-ending questions about drugs, Seattle, and grunge. I can't/won't make excuses for his drug addiction, which I totally agree was his #1 problem, but coping with that stress didn't help.
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Post by FreeRider on Mar 2, 2023 23:06:27 GMT -5
I also want to know how the hell Paul can sing like that; it just sounds like he's really straining his voice on this song. I mean, it sounds great, but how the hell did he sing that on tour without blowing out his voice? I don't know if he ever had any vocal training but he's got a helluva lot of vocal distortion and added character. It's great and sounds great---maybe all that smoking and drinking helped give his voice some character and tone?
As for what Kurt wanted and how he wanted success? I don't really know or have any thoughts on it but I'd think any performing artist would want to have some economic success because it enables you to have financial freedom. You get out of the trenches, get out of the van, and financial freedom also affords you some measure of artistic freedom where you're not so beholden to the label.
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Schecky
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Post by Schecky on Apr 9, 2023 23:25:15 GMT -5
I always took the song as Paul writing about himself, and the missteps he took in rejecting what the band was.
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