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Post by con on Nov 9, 2018 0:15:34 GMT -5
On account of The Beatles getting the remix/reissue treatment – out tomorrow on it's 50th anniversary (actually, right now on Spotify!) – I'm curious: which album by the 'Mats would you most like to hear remixed AND by whom?
I mean, I'm listening to Giles Martin's new remix of "Dear Prudence" on headphones and I'm blown away. The original magic is still there but these are a whole 'nutha experience. Wow!
Like, imagine if Martin or Steve Albini got their mitts on Tim or Hootenanny...
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Post by ClamsCasino on Nov 9, 2018 2:57:12 GMT -5
Like, imagine if Martin or Steve Albini got their mitts on Tim or Hootenanny... I think Hootenanny sounds great, but just with an inconsistent sound overall. On the other hand, I predict that nearly everyone will answer Tim to your question. No doubt it could use a remix/remaster. I know Paul has said that the problems with Tim were in the studio and not in the mix or master. In this interview, he says that one of the speakers on his amp was blown and he thinks that's the one that was miked. PAUL WESTERBERG: THE MAN WHO WASN’T THERE |
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Post by curmudgeonman on Nov 9, 2018 8:58:00 GMT -5
By far, Tim. They need to go back to square one to mix that album.
Producer Tommy Erdelyl had hearing problems (being the ex-drummer for the Ramones) and apparently mixed Tim wearing headphones.
The drums sound awful in the mix, the whole thing had a harsh tinny tone.
Overall, my favorite album song-wise, but the sound was perhaps the worst.
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Post by oldmatsfan on Nov 9, 2018 10:18:39 GMT -5
I like where this is going, keep your fingers crossed folks!
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Post by 405z06 on Nov 9, 2018 17:35:15 GMT -5
By far, Tim. They need to go back to square one to mix that album. Producer Tommy Erdelyl had hearing problems (being the ex-drummer for the Ramones) and apparently mixed Tim wearing headphones. The drums sound awful in the mix, the whole thing had a harsh tinny tone. Overall, my favorite album song-wise, but the sound was perhaps the worst. While I agree that the most correct answer is Tim, the hearing problems thing was addressed with Erdelyl while he was still alive, and in the Mehr book. The problem with Tim, IMHO, is mixing and too much reverb. There needs to be separation of the guitars, one for each channel, just like on the Hoboken show, which sounds amazing. Everything is mixed on Tim likes it in mono for the guitars and it's a mess. And listen to the beginning of Swinging Party and the reverb, it's just drenched. PTMM is bad, too, but in different ways that I won't voice my opinion on right now. |
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Freddy
First Class Scout
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Post by Freddy on Nov 9, 2018 18:23:44 GMT -5
By far, Tim. They need to go back to square one to mix that album. Producer Tommy Erdelyl had hearing problems (being the ex-drummer for the Ramones) and apparently mixed Tim wearing headphones. The drums sound awful in the mix, the whole thing had a harsh tinny tone. Overall, my favorite album song-wise, but the sound was perhaps the worst. Easy pickins' right there. Tim by far. |
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Post by worldclassfad on Nov 9, 2018 21:41:46 GMT -5
Definitely Tim.
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Post by con on Nov 10, 2018 0:45:11 GMT -5
Ok ok I foresaw this. Tim is clearly the one that needs a new wardrobe. But WHO would you like to tackle that? What does the Tim of your dreams sound like? I love Let It Be as is, but I also wonder what it would sound like given the Don't Tell a Soul treatment. Don't kill me! Like, imagine "Unsatisfied" all washed out in reverb and cavernous, frickin' huge. Bob's violin-y guitar all spaced out. The opening arpeggios all bombastic and Axel Rose-y.
Random aside: top Youtube comment on "Unsatisfied," "this song man, makes me wanna punch thousands of mirrors with my reflection in it."
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Post by curmudgeonman on Nov 10, 2018 12:24:39 GMT -5
Shit, I would love to have Giles Martin and Sam Okell tackle Tim, the same team who remixed Sgt. Pepper (as well as the new White Album release); if you haven't heard the new Pepper, it is utterly fantastic, breathes a whole new life into the album. These guys worked wonders with tapes from 1967. Doing the A - B listening test between the old stereo release and the new one is amazing. As far as Tim, the echo/reverb sucks, just so much of it. As I posted earlier, the drums, especially the snare needs to be re-tooled somehow; sounds as bad as Grant Hart's snare on the Husker Du albums. Tommy's bass needs redefining, a little more bottom end, as well as clearing up the definition between the various guitars. Sound needs to be more vivid, better soundstage and depth. con, I just ordered the White Album CD set on Amazon last night  |
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Post by dee on Nov 10, 2018 20:19:26 GMT -5
I think maybe we're hoping for something that isn't there with Tim,but if it could be made to sound as rocking as Maxwell's of breathed new life into it,that would be cool.I thought most college rock and punk albums from the 80's sounded like that,so I've always been fine with Tim's sound.The fact that it has,arguably,the best batch of songs of Westerberg's career,maybe it would be worth a go at it.With today's technology it could probably be made to sound like anything.Have Iggy Pop remix it,he'll put some hair on it!
I thought more people would want to hear Don't Tell A Soul get remixed and remastered since it has always been seen as a relic of 80's commercial pop production sheen.
I think Jim Dickinson did a great job of crafting some of the performances on PTMM with editing to make it as great as it is.There is a boom-y sound to it,but it doesn't sound sterile to me.Somehow,it captures the plaid phase they were in and it showcases the best singing of Westerberg on a Replacements album!
Let It Be would be interesting to hear remixed,but would maybe be the hardest to improve upon.
Might as well do them all!
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Post by leftofthedial09 on Nov 10, 2018 21:35:57 GMT -5
Let it Be is perfectly mixed. Please do not touch.
Tim, however. Yeah, get on that.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Nov 10, 2018 22:40:24 GMT -5
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Post by dee on Nov 13, 2018 2:50:13 GMT -5
I think Dickinson was saying that Westerberg's voice changed "after" PTMM. Dickinson seemed happy that he got to work with Paul while he(PW)was still at the peak of his powers.
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Post by pm on Nov 15, 2018 11:53:29 GMT -5
I agree with everyone else that Tim could use some cleaning up of the mud, and DTAS could use some removal of the sheen and reverb.
But I also think PTMM could use a remix. Everyone seems to love that mix, and I am a fan of Jim Dickenson, but man, the album sounds too clinical to me and i don't like the snare sound.
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markc
Dances With Posts
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Post by markc on Nov 15, 2018 20:27:47 GMT -5
Don't change a thing on Hootenanny. Tim could obviously benefit from a remix.
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Post by anarkissed on Nov 15, 2018 20:54:53 GMT -5
I'll check out anything...But you ain't beating "PTMM", for me...I pretty much consider that to be the Holy Grail of getting some coked out, amateur alcoholic, fucked up snotty-ass, bratty kids with bad attitudes, and a wealth of talent they didn't even recognize, to record in some supposedly historic-vibed shrine, though, to them, it appeared to be some rundown shithole with vomit and pee stains in the corners of what I imagine was a kinda rundown part of the Old Border South, while they kicked somebody's brother out of the band and told them: "This is your last chance!" And it sounded like that? Jim deserves a Congressional Medal of Honor...This is the album I fell in love with them on...So, back off, fuckers! "The snares too hot?!! Hey, that shit went straight through my spinal cord and bored into my brain because I was high out of my mind on Ecstasy, O.K.? It was 1987! Life would never be this good again! It was all downhill from here!" "What'dya mean my first girlfriend fucked somebody else before me? I'll fucking kill ya', cocksucker!"
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Post by raccoon on Nov 16, 2018 19:33:23 GMT -5
Any word on when the remix of the masterpieces of the art world will begin?
I mean we should toy, fiddle, improve and otherwise 'fix' everything, right? Somebody correct those lips on the Mona Lisa pronto and , while we're at it...I always thought Munch's 'Scream' should be a yawn. (PLus that tumultuous orange sky is so much a product of it's time. So dated.)
Maybe sometimes art should just be what it is, n'est-ce pas?
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Post by dee on Nov 17, 2018 4:54:13 GMT -5
Well music is different than paintings because the work is re-packaged and re-released pretty much every generation.This is done to introduce new generations of fans to the music, and it resets the clock on the music becoming public domain.That's why Bob Dylan does the Bootleg Series.He also sees his songs as living things that grow and change in live settings.
Audiophiles know that almost every pressing of an album varies some from country to country and label to label,so who's to say what the definitive version is?
Paul McCartney re-did Let It Be.Sargent Pepper was just remixed.Exile On Main Street can sound like gut bucket sludge or you can hear perfect separation between all the instruments depending on when & who it was mixed and put out by.
I think fans who buy everything by an artist eventually crave a remix,just to switch up the reissue process,as the repackaging of the artists work gets more bargain-y.It's surprising that the Replacements don't have a 20th Century Masters,Icon,or Essential release.They've basically managed to keep all the repackaging in house and not as part of a series.
In the future fans will probably just get an app and mix albums themselves from the original master tapes.
It would be cool if,instead of Beat Bobby Flay,there was a Beat Bob Ludwig and someone would do a mix against an industry pro.
Only the artist can say what the official definitive version of their song is,and it could be the demo that nobody has ever heard,or the fans won't care what the artist thinks and like a different version of the song.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Nov 17, 2018 22:51:40 GMT -5
Yeah, the painting analogy doesn't really work when there are so many layers of production to music recording that have nothing to do with the original performance. Paul says that nobody in the band was even in town when Dickinson put the horns on Can't Hardly Wait. And then you have every interview with Dickinson where he talks about having to piece together Paul's takes in a Fairlight sampler just to cobble together a coherent song. And while Dickinson was secretly patching together Paul's vocals, Paul was talking about how they recorded over Chris's drum parts with sampled beats.
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Post by raccoon on Nov 17, 2018 23:28:46 GMT -5
You guys are way too nice! I fully expected to get slammed for being such a contrary Luddite.
I do think there is something not quite right in tweaking these things though. I also understand wanting to hear cleaner recordings of favorite pieces. I just cringe at the thought of someone trying improve or modernize universally recognized classics in any artform. The warts and flaws (and 'datedness') of these things sometimes adds to their mystique.
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