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Post by 405z06 on Oct 23, 2018 21:20:27 GMT -5
Point: Bob was drunk, out of control, had to be dismissed.
Counterpoint: Bob, just a few months form being fired, was en fuego on the Maxwell's CD. Most of us have this for decades, but the official release proves once and for all the Bob was GOD and the split was not musical, but inter-personal. Maxwell's is great except Paul's voice is shot.
Change my mind
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Post by dee on Oct 24, 2018 0:38:45 GMT -5
Point: Bob had issues bigger than the band.
Counterpoint: Bob was in that band even after he left and he always will be.
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Post by FreeRider on Oct 24, 2018 9:06:57 GMT -5
Point: Bob had issues bigger than the band. Counterpoint: Bob was in that band even after he left and he always will be. Bob's not gone. He's simply unavailable right now... |
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Post by con on Oct 24, 2018 13:21:04 GMT -5
I think Bob had a particular kind of genius that suited – no, made – the band through '86 (and would have, I wager, added a beautiful layer of noise to PTMM). But for the following records, as Paul claimed, there didn't seem to be room for his balls-to-the-wall sound on their new (and tamed) palette of tones.
But Mehr seems to argue in Trouble Boys that when Bob was fired for "bad behavior" none of the boys was particularly near sainthood. In fact, wasn't the DTAS period their pickled peak? Seems mightily hypocritical of Paul to have cast stones at a brother for being soused and unpredictable when he was playing in the same puddle, which makes me think the divorce, whatever the optics, was mostly motivated by sonics.
Interesting side note: the band's most popular songs on Spotify are "Swinging Party" and "Androgynous," both songs of the ballad-inclined side of the band from the era of Bob. Makes me wonder how Bob's role would have evolved if, in an alternate universe, he'd never been given the slip.
Wish Bob was here to chime in...
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Post by teddinard on Oct 24, 2018 19:08:29 GMT -5
As a fan of the band, like you guys, I've pondered Bob's departure a fair amount. What I always end with is how distant from and ignorant of all that went into it I am.
I would note that on Tim, maybe the band's best album, Bob's lead playing is no great shakes. And we're told by Tommy Erdelyi that Bob just showed up one afternoon to dub in his parts, and didn't contribute beyond that. Who knows why? Was he disenchanted? Protesting? Or just distracted by something else in his life?
So yes, around that time, he turned in some great live performances. But he also was sometimes AWOL or just not on stage when he was supposed to be. I don't know how exactly to interpret his absence from the Tim sessions. But I'm always struck by how minimal, to be honest, his contribution to the sound of that record is.
By all accounts, Bob was a fucked-up guy. The rest of the band, to varying degrees, were too. I've never been in a band potentially on the brink of stardom. But (as I may have said here before)I have been in difficult situations with small groups of people who know each other too well.
I know what it might be like for three quite fucked-up guys to try to make the right decision about how to handle an extremely fucked-up guy. It's not as though PW was a licensed therapist or even capable of making wise, disinterested judgments about the whole thing. So yeah, while I could blame him for handling it wrong, it's neither surprising nor unforgivable that things turned out the way it did. And I know from personal experience that regrets last forever.
Poor Bob.
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Post by Veets on Oct 24, 2018 20:31:33 GMT -5
Interesting side note: the band's most popular songs on Spotify are "Swinging Party" and "Androgynous," both songs of the ballad-inclined side of the band from the era of Bob. Makes me wonder how Bob's role would have evolved if, in an alternate universe, he'd never been given the slip. Wish Bob was here to chime in... It may be true that those are their most popular songs on Spotify but I've gotta believe that's more to do with the fact that Lorde and Mylie did covers, than for the merit of those songs alone. Like how Dyslexic Heart is probably Paul's most popular on Spotify, but no where near the top of my list, or other lists I would venture to say. (Also wish Bob was here to chime in.). |
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Post by Veets on Oct 24, 2018 20:53:36 GMT -5
Like how Dyslexic Heart is probably Paul's most popular on Spotify, but no where near the top of my list, or other lists I would venture to say. And don't get me started again on all those Philippine fans making Paul rich... m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZepdQ37KQHc |
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Schecky
Star Scout
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Posts: 693
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Post by Schecky on Oct 24, 2018 23:30:54 GMT -5
Like how Dyslexic Heart is probably Paul's most popular on Spotify, but no where near the top of my list, or other lists I would venture to say. And don't get me started again on all those Philippine fans making Paul rich... m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZepdQ37KQHc |
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Post by FreeRider on Oct 25, 2018 11:19:57 GMT -5
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Post by jimmyrock on Oct 25, 2018 19:35:14 GMT -5
Counterpoint: Bob was in that band even after he left and he always will be. musically its too bad he didnt stay...what did Slim contribute guitarwise that made you go wow? Paul did just fine on PTMM |
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Post by con on Oct 26, 2018 15:42:51 GMT -5
Interesting side note: the band's most popular songs on Spotify are "Swinging Party" and "Androgynous," both songs of the ballad-inclined side of the band from the era of Bob. Makes me wonder how Bob's role would have evolved if, in an alternate universe, he'd never been given the slip. Wish Bob was here to chime in... It may be true that those are their most popular songs on Spotify but I've gotta believe that's more to do with the fact that Lorde and Mylie did covers, than for the merit of those songs alone... Ah good point! Still, I think an argument could be made that songs like "Androgynous" or in general the band's softer side (or, at least, their ability to traverse such varied musical terrain) is what has (no pun intended) engendered a new wave of fandom. I don't hear pop stars covering "Dose of Thunder" or "Kids Don't Follow." Not yet, at least. But one can dream, no? |
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Post by anarkissed on Oct 26, 2018 17:13:37 GMT -5
Bob...I was a post-Bob fan...Which means I started during "Tim", so I was interested in this band whether Bob was in there or not, to whatever degree...I'm glad it happened that way...Because, when I first ventured into "Mats" forums, there was this whole, Bob...Cult...To them, Bob was The Replacements...They hated Paul...They, literally, thought Paul destroyed the band...To me, Bob was a guy I knew well...Early on, I would've worshipped this guy...I was a skinny, nerdy fuck sophomore...Bob was this big, burly senior who liked cool bands and knew people who would buy underage kids beer, and, for no apparent reason, decided he was my friend. He'd kick the shit out of anybody who fucked with me, for just, like one Saturday night, and nobody else would've ever fucked with me again, ever...Three years later, Bob wanted to know if I could spot him a hundred bucks, forgetting that I'd given him a hundred bucks last Tuesday because we were gonna split a gram, and I'd have to write him off...I'd stop taking his calls, and feel really shitty about it...It wasn't like I wasn't a stoner, and a budding alcoholic, and a potential drug addict, but when we were coming home from some strip club at 3 A.M., blasted out of minds, Bob would be the one who stuck his bare ass out the rear window and yelled: "Eat this motherfuckers!", with a Highway Patrol car behind us, while I cringed in the corner and vomited...As a guitarist...I've said this before, here, but, what the hell, is anybody gonna really remember what I said four years ago? In fact, if you've read to this point, you probably need help...Bob did shit on guitar that it is humanly impossible to do...He really was one of those: "Bob? We're gonna turn on tape now...O.K.? There's a playback on your headphones. Just play whatever you think fits there. If you fuck up, or you can't hear the playback, just keep going...Doesn't matter...If you feel O.K., we might do it twice"...He was the epitome of the "accidental guitarist"...I always like to imagine, at some point, somehow, it happened that there was somebody, somewhere, who wanted a "transcription" of some Bob-era lead for, whatever...Some poor Yngwie Malmsteen fuck had to sit down: "I've spent three days with this...I did the best I could...No one is ever going to be able to recreate this: "High Chuck Berry-like bend on A Flat, but out of tune, slide to G (which is apparently out of key) for quarter beat, correct to G Sharp, flurry of [unintelligble], slice to C, scrape to D, [immense feedback[ crash in on chorus root chord, which I think is F...Good Lord!" But, no, this band could not have gone on with him...They could have just broke up, which was a viable option, and probably, eventually, remained as legendary...We would have lost some pretty good work...But that fucker; I do love him...He would have been my hero at one time...
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Post by worldclassfad on Oct 28, 2018 22:09:52 GMT -5
No way Bob would have let songs like Nightclub Jitters and Skyway be on PTMM if he stayed in the band. Would have been awesome to hear him rip it up on The Ledge or Shooting Dirty Pool. Lots of material for Bob to really go wild, interesting to think what the album could have been like.
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Post by raccoon on Nov 2, 2018 20:05:38 GMT -5
This one is still too difficult and painful to call for me. Love Bob, love Paul, love 'em all. Addiction, sadly kills. Nobody knows the right thing to do. Hard to save anybody from themselves. Was the decision of the band correct? Only God knows and he's not giving interviews on the subject. The only thing for certain is that we lost a fabulously original talent when Bob left this world. His playing is still bringing joy to many of us.
(And 'the funniest, most dead on lines posted on the board this year award' goes to....Anarkissed for this jewel:
"I always like to imagine, at some point, somehow, it happened that there was somebody, somewhere, who wanted a "transcription" of some Bob-era lead for, whatever...Some poor Yngwie Malmsteen fuck had to sit down: "I've spent three days with this...I did the best I could...No one is ever going to be able to recreate this: "High Chuck Berry-like bend on A Flat, but out of tune, slide to G (which is apparently out of key) for quarter beat, correct to G Sharp, flurry of [unintelligble], slice to C, scrape to D, [immense feedback[ crash in on chorus root chord, which I think is F...Good Lord!")
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