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Post by Kathy on Nov 22, 2003 9:37:24 GMT -5
I am not denying that there is charm in Paul's low cost production style. Damn it...I love Mono/Stereo to death. I am just saying that there is a compromise here and that Paul should not shy away from getting at least one producer of his choice involved in the future. at ths point in time, it looks like Paul IS the producer of his choice. If he wanted another producer, he could cetainly have one. He doesn't want one. To me, it's immaterial whether these songs would sound better with a producer because I believe if Paul still had to work with a producer, we wouldn't have much of this new material at all (if any). And he does have to make money - hiring a producer, studio time, that's a huge expense compared to walking downstairs and recording yourself. I would guess though that it;s less abotu the money and more about the process that makes the home recording option so appealing. The music industry is fucked, I don't understand how anyone but the top 50 artists make anything approaching a living. I'm never going to understand why "My Daydream" or "what A Day" isn't being pushed as a single to AAA radio. That's the reality of where Paul can get airplay on radio in 2003, and it should be a non-brainer. Apparently it isn't. k.
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Post by FeelinLike100Bucks on Nov 22, 2003 9:44:31 GMT -5
I think we all would agree that there isn't a producer alive that can make you "get" PW. The music and Paul are bigger than that.
That said, I love the intamcy of the basement stuff and the more polished stuff as well. It's a good mix.
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Post by Johnny99 on Nov 22, 2003 14:27:32 GMT -5
I'd love for Don't Tell A Soul to be re-mixed (or un-mixed) down to the original sound that PW had in mind for it. It is still one of my favorite albums because the songs really are that good. Fans often diss it because of the production, but it's still one of my favorites regardless. Hearing some of the songs from DTAS live gives one an idea of how they might have sounded without all the glossy reverb and compression all over it.
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Chris
Dances With Posts
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Post by Chris on Nov 22, 2003 20:19:47 GMT -5
Westerberg needs a producer like he needs a haircut or a tailor.
Smartest move that guy ever made was to walk away from the game and make records in his basement - damn good ones at that.
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Post by torethatbridgeout on Nov 23, 2003 7:15:08 GMT -5
How 'bout keep it in the basement but choose one song per album to ship out and let someone else produce, some hit machine? Like buying one lottery ticket a month. It worked for those lunch ladies. I for one would not mind hearing one radio-ready track per Paul album, knowing full well it was not "pure Paul" ...
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Chris
Dances With Posts
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Post by Chris on Nov 23, 2003 10:49:13 GMT -5
I'm never going to understand why "My Daydream" or "what A Day" isn't being pushed as a single to AAA radio. That's the reality of where Paul can get airplay on radio in 2003, and it should be a non-brainer. Apparently it isn't. k. Kathy, I'm not trying to state the obvious here, but the music business is just that - a business. In the late 60s, 70s, and even the very early 80s, labels would give small bands a few albums to develop a following and hope their investment payed off. Record, hit the raod non stop, and see what happens. Videos changed all that - with a few million dollars invested in every rookie act, it's get famous the first time or see you around. The same conglomerates that own the labels own the radio and video stations - they present a product, advertise it on radio and video stations, and wait for the moey to roll back in. That's what AAA radio is - commercials for the labels product. That's why Westerberg - a proven failure at mega-success - doesn't get played on AAA radio. Not worth the investment. Acts like Westerberg aren't even in the same industry as the acts on AAA radio.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Nov 23, 2003 16:54:28 GMT -5
How 'bout keep it in the basement but choose one song per album to ship out and let someone else produce, some hit machine? Like buying one lottery ticket a month. It worked for those lunch ladies. I for one would not mind hearing one radio-ready track per Paul album, knowing full well it was not "pure Paul" ... The other day I was thinking how cool of an experiment it would be for Paul to remake some of his albums. He could bang out a remake of Don't Tell A Soul in his basement and then go into some multi-million dollar studio with Mutt Lange to remake Come Feel Me Tremble. It would be an interesting lesson, that's for sure.
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Post by Kathy on Nov 23, 2003 17:27:53 GMT -5
That's why Westerberg - a proven failure at mega-success - doesn't get played on AAA radio. Not worth the investment. Acts like Westerberg aren't even in the same industry as the acts on AAA radio. If people like John Eddie and the Jayhawks can get significant airplay on AAA radio -- which they are -- then there is a place for Paul in that format and there is an ROI for spending the money to make that push - getting the music heard by new fans who will go out and buy it. That's why they do stuff like the Starbuck sampler, but I think they need to do more and take a single and plug the hell out of it to the most likely to be receptive radio audience and that means AAA. I don't claim to understand the Byzantine workings of the music industry but I do know that in order for the vast majority of people to be motivated to go out and buy new music - esp. people in the 30s-40s age range - they have to hear it first. Whether it's hearing it on a TV show or on the radio or a soundtrack - whatever. I just don't understan where they think new fans will come from and if they don't generate new fans....? k.
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Brian
Tenderfoot
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Post by Brian on Nov 23, 2003 18:11:56 GMT -5
Hey I'm gulity of being a commerical triple (a) program director and we're playing "what a day(for a night) 18x a week I'm happy to say, but I'm in a great position to play what I think fits and the indie/or label promoters don't call me or my managers with incentive$ (say no more) because we're not considered major market.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Nov 23, 2003 18:58:00 GMT -5
If recent interviews are any indication, I'd say that Paul is saving the big marketing push for Folker. I'm sure Vagrant would prefer to get behind one Westerberg record at a time as opposed to two, and it sounds like Folker will be the one. I do think that What a Day (For a Night) could sit comfortably on a playlist between the Jayhawks single and the new Ryan Adams, but Vagrant would rather put Dashboard Confessional in that slot. Particularly when Westerberg himself is far more excited about the upcoming Folker than he is about his current album. If Vagrant doesn't make a concentrated effort to promote Folker, then we'll know that they've really given up on Paul ever making it to the big chart.
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Chris
Dances With Posts
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Post by Chris on Nov 24, 2003 8:52:48 GMT -5
If people like John Eddie and the Jayhawks can get significant airplay on AAA radio -- which they are -- then there is a place for Paul in that format and there is an ROI for spending the money to make that push - Eddie and the Jayhawks are on Universal - big label, big money push. Westerberg's already tried that route and by his own account it caused him to walk away from the entire business.
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mr_rabbit
Dances With Posts
The special Double Issue
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Post by mr_rabbit on Nov 24, 2003 11:14:28 GMT -5
I think Brian has a point, if the music is played even to what the conglomerates would consider a 'small' audience it still has the chance to be picked up by the people - I believe the exposure can snow-ball but it needs to get its start somewhere.
I remember WDRE in this area (Philly) used to play Paul and the mats but of course the station here 103.9 was bought out by one of the big boys and converted into a Rap/R&B station. Just recently 96.5 had changed its format to Rap/R&B, it had been similiar to Y100 (which is the alternavite station). Now I havent listened to the radio for over 10 minutes in about 3 years, its all garbage that comes out my speakers because its all garbage that is fed into the system - garbage in (the studio), garbage out (of my speakers). I hear Paul played on Public Radio and thats the only place I need to hear him. NOW of course I want Paul to make some coin so any mainstream appreciation would be translated into cash in his pocket BUT that being said, he seems to be making his way by doing things his way, his freedom from the shackles of mainstream music demands allow him to write the poignant, silly, irreverent, thought provoking songs that we all want. I say go with it, raw and unpolished sounds good to me.
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Post by liam studebaker on Nov 24, 2003 22:44:56 GMT -5
In my opinion, all good albums should NOT sound slick. I hate it when bands say they take 4 days to make the cymbals sound just right. Fuck that. There are many albums that would sound a lot better if they were recorded in a basement or a garage. Metallica is a perfect example. Their first 4 albums sound great and then they got big name Boob Cock to produce and the discs sounded so slick that I could have greased a pan and made brownies. That perfect sound should have stayed in the Prog Rock genre and died the slow death it has been for the past 25 years.
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Post by go21bucs on Nov 25, 2003 13:10:30 GMT -5
I agree with whomever stated a desire to have DTAS re-released as Paul and the boys intended...much like the Beatles just did with Let It Be.
I also love the tunes on DTAS, but the sound is absolutely horrible. I would not want it to be "slicked up" but more like "cleaned up."
As for everyone's comments under this topic (which has been an interesting read), I think that the way Paul is doing it now is fine by me. I agree with the folks on here who said that he's already tried the so-called "tried and true" methods and they didn't work. Paul now has control of what, when, where and how he wants to record. If he wanted another producer, I'm sure there's 50 of them out there who would jump at the chance.
Keep keepin' it real, Grandpaboy....
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Doug
First Class Scout
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Post by Doug on Nov 26, 2003 1:44:33 GMT -5
I love the sound of the recent stuff. I also love the sound on the older stuff. I'm glad he's happy and prolific and at possibly the peak of his songwriting skills. But I sometimes wonder if a bit more production might help the songs stand up to time better and, god forbid, maybe even get some wider recognition. He likes to write pretty songs (or claimed something like that around the time of Eventually). I can imagine what it's like, as he said recently (more or less), to worry about getting every line right versus just pouring it out. We're now enjoying the benefits of his newfound approach/happiness/outpouring/prolificity etc. I remember thinking when I rediscovered him a couple years ago how his music is almost note perfect. Like he's got an amazing ear for balance/sound/production/etc. And even his new lo-fi stuff is almost note perfect. I just sometimes think some songs could be slightly better with a bit more production. Or maybe something like an "editor" as someone earlier suggested. He still loves the old pop stuff from the 70s. So I think he'd understand what I'm saying. Don't sweat every line of lyrics -- they're great. But the occasional smoothed edge might not hurt. Perhaps.
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Doug
First Class Scout
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Post by Doug on Dec 2, 2003 4:19:47 GMT -5
I just have to correct myself a bit. I've now listened to CFMT about 20 more times and I was wrong -- he doesn't need a producer or anyone. I think this album may be as good as anything he's ever done. He can easily write a pretty ditty like What a Day for a Night, which is as good as any of the big label stuff he wrote for his first three solo albums. But he can do so much more. Stuff that appeals to him and us, but probably not a hugely wide audience. I wouldn't want a note changed on CFMT. And if he says Folker is better, wow. (Two questions though -- Think he'd consider a touch more on graphics? And, though trying to work out the lyrics can be fun, think he'd consider printing them? They're brilliant and it could stretch the audience a tad, without selling out in the least.) What do people think?
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Post by torethatbridgeout on Dec 2, 2003 6:49:35 GMT -5
though trying to work out the lyrics can be fun, think he'd consider printing them? They're brilliant and it could stretch the audience a tad, without selling out in the least.) What do people think? I think no. Never done yet. I don't have time for all his eccentricities but this one I respect: no printed lyrics. It's too fussy, and to use a puke-tastic simile, it's like pinning down a dead butterfly.
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Post by bhay42 on Dec 2, 2003 16:18:12 GMT -5
I've loved the lo-fi sound on the last couple albums and got to ask, really, what songs would sound better with high end production? What A Day For Night is the only one I could see an argument being made for. It would pain me to hear Making Me Go or AAA or Mr. Rabbit all glossy.
In the end, I'm just down for whatever means Paul releasing more music, so if that's lo-fi, excellent.
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Post by bhay42 on Dec 2, 2003 16:21:01 GMT -5
And yeah, who needs radio play when Paul's tunes are appearing on The O.C.? One "Mr. Rabbit" in Seth Cohen's bedroom is worth, what, at least 25 spins on some local station?
Not to mention, there was that season of Felicity where Paul's music and the last name Stinson kept popping up... Radio may have forgotten, but teen melodrama never will!
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Post by A Regular on Dec 3, 2003 19:02:11 GMT -5
Just a minor correction regarding the printing of lyrics. For SG there is a "collector's" edition that came out, and in it came a lyric booklet...which is a bit ironic in that SG may be the one album where all the lyrics are clearly heard.
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