glgbill
Dances With Posts
Posts: 58
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Post by glgbill on Sept 18, 2010 1:23:19 GMT -5
I finally made my first visit to the Hall yesterday. What is sad is that I live only an hour away and hadn't taken the time to go. Of course the first thing I wanted to do was look for those lyrics to "Here Comes a Regular." I'm pretty sure I annoyed my friend by running to the gift shop to purchase a souvenir notebook and pen just so I could write them down, because they are very different from the finished song as it appeared on "Tim." Here it is, exactly as he wrote it: A person can work up a mean, mean thirst after a hard day of nothin' much at all Summer's past, it's too late to cut the grass, the other tree died, so there's nothin' to do in the fall Today I just ain't in the mood to take my place in back with the other loudmouths The ground is wet under a harvest moon, sick of living at my father's house Everybody wants to be special here, call our names out loud-n-clear Here comes a regular, share a common name Here comes a regular, am I the only one that feels ashamed Found a drinkin' buddy in another town, but the police said you couldn't stay Probably in the arms of your baby now Wanna great big whiskey and I want you here today Along side some older guy, said you can't miss what you ain't had I'm sick of everything my money can buy He said your crazy and stupid, I said "yeah" If you find a picture please send it soon, make me happy if you did I'd put it next to a picture of a harvest moon drawn by a child hung on the fridge Took that song off the juke box, was my favorite one left Replaced it with a #1 smash hit to listen to only makes me mad Soon the lights come on, stools-n-chairs go up, someone will shout last call The summer's past, soon the snow will kill the rest of the grass Old tree died, there's nothin' to do in the fall I stood there for at least a half an hour; I just couldn't believe I was seeing this. Incredible! Thank you for sharing...that's a real gift.
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Post by DoseOfThunder on Sept 18, 2010 2:47:36 GMT -5
scooter, i agree with your sentiments. to me, rock and roll is black music. there's just no way around it if you know your music history. I can't disagree with this statement strongly enough, and I know my music history very, very well. I also know a little about cultural anthropology Cultural Diffusion and Diffusion of Innovations is more prominent in music, and especially rock and roll, than any other art form. To state an art form as diverse as Rock and Roll is the progeny of a specific race is about as racist a statement as I've ever read. That would be akin to saying oil painting is white art. Ever listen to any Irish Folk music? English Folk Music? Scottish Folk Music? If you know your music history, then you know that those regional musical sounds had a little, tiny, itsy, bitsy influence on Rock & Roll. Yes BigBak, those influences are very important. Original real country (hillbilly) music is also very very important. Good point you have indeed! However, I can't claim to speak for anyone else, but I would venture to assume that the point FreeRider was making (and a point that I also agree with...a point that can't be said enough, really) is that without the original african american masters, there would likely be no primal exciting rock 'n' roll, and so many people forget to give them their due. For example, we're so lucky to have Little Richard still walking among us. The true King Of Rock, I feel. I salute him and all the other originators!
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Post by FreeRider on Sept 18, 2010 8:10:10 GMT -5
yikes! didn't mean to stir up a backlash whereupon i'd be called out implicity as a racist.
I do not argue with you on those points. certainly country and Appalachian music had some influence on the black folks at the time, i'm not disagreeing with that. Chuck Berry acknowledged listening to and being influenced by a wide range of music to include country-swing stuff.
Dose understood part of what I meant, but I'll try and clarify my statement. We can argue who invented what--i"ll leave that to the academics--but what I was trying to get at was the blues form itself. those magical three chords, of which rock and roll is based upon, is the foundation. I'm a little hazy on my music theory but it's that magical I-IV-V, the tonic, subdominant, and dominant chords of the scale. And the blues has the signature uses of the flatted 5th ( ?) I think. The scale almost exclusively used in rock is the pentatonic scale---all derived from the blues form.
It isn't to say that the early music by the black slaves and field workers wasn't or couldn't have been influenced by some of the music they heard from the white folks of the day and of the region. I would guess it did. Look at how the delta bluesmen also took from ragtime. Look at Ledbelly or even the Rev. Gary Davis, a fantastic fingerstyle blues picker on the guitar but he was also playing ragtime stuff in his blues. perhaps we can agree that the blues was an evolving form as well. But the blues practitioners and roots lie with black people, in my opinion.
Remove all blues forms and signature sounds from the music and leave only the folk music, the country music of the day. What would we have? Remove it from all popular music. How would the music feel? What would have evolved? Would we have a Billie Holliday? Would we even have jazz? A Hendrix? Led Zeppeliin? T he Stones? I know, I know---all just wild speculation on my part. But that's what I meant by it being "black" music, that it had its roots and foundnation in the blues form. I certainly wasn't taking a bold position to diminish contributions of the regional music of the time or its people.
But indeed, we shouldn't forget the roots and the contributions of the black artists and pioneers of the early days. That is important too.
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gage
First Class Scout
Posts: 168
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Post by gage on Sept 18, 2010 10:32:32 GMT -5
In my book KISS is Rock and Roll, so are The Monkees. I like ABBA just fine, some great songs there, but it's not Rock and Roll. The New York Dolls are very Rock and Roll and really deserve to be in the Hall, as do Husker Du, Black Flag and The Replacements. Can you belive it's only 3 years until Nirvana is eligible.
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Post by wiser's deluxe on Sept 21, 2010 2:30:57 GMT -5
upon my one and only visit to the rock and roll hall of fame a few years back, i began with a stop at these music listening stations they have set up not far from the main entrance. scrolling through the list of songs, i discovered how the whole thing worked, and how there were a series of genres and a list of bands and songs that influenced each. i immediately went to what i think was the punk era circa 1970s-80s and scrolled down to "R," to find to my surprise (this is an establishment place in my way of thinking after all) a 'Mats song: "I Will Dare." as my wife was over at another listening station doing her own research, she looked over to me and saw me tear up (and i'm man enough to admit that now as i had not problem doing so then). and once the song was over, and i pulled the headphones off, she asked me what was wrong. and i said, nothing. for that one moment, my love for The 'Mats wasn't exactly justified or reinforced, but somehow qualified because this band i had spent so much time listening to growing up and believed was great (despite what the radio suits and the tin-eared masses had to say about it) had been recognized here in this place. and as much as i should've been angry that their entire discography wasn't included, that didn't matter. suddenly i felt -- even though standing in the shadowy fringe as all of us fans are accustomed to -- as if i had belonged. and then i spent much of the rest of the day complaining about the u2 display and the overpriced cds in the gift shop.
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sivad
Star Scout
Posts: 323
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Post by sivad on Sept 28, 2010 17:59:19 GMT -5
The 2011 nominees came out today and once again no Mats or Westerberg. Why are the Beastie Boys being considered and not the Mats. Just doesn't make sense to me . . .
Well, at least Alice Cooper may be honored.
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Post by timtoast on Sept 28, 2010 18:18:03 GMT -5
I see those legendary rock and rollers, Neil Diamond, Donna Summer and the man my mom went to high school with, Dr. John all made the nominee list.
All together now....what the F?!?!?!?
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Post by anarkissed on Sept 28, 2010 21:12:46 GMT -5
Well, whatever you think of the Hall, or of Kiss, I think it would be a travesty if Bon Jovi were in there and Kiss weren't...I'm also not too impressed with the nomination of a marginal artist like the J. Geils Band...How about Trapeze? Or Savoy Brown? Winger?
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Post by brianlux on Sept 29, 2010 0:15:05 GMT -5
I see those legendary rock and rollers, Neil Diamond, Donna Summer and the man my mom went to high school with, Dr. John all made the nominee list. All together now....what the F?!?!?!? An understandable reaction, Timtoast, and yet Neil Diamond, as mushy as much of his career has been, did make some very good records early on and then much later did the same with the help of Rick Ruben. So maybe half a gold star? As for Dr. John, I'd give it to him just for the wildly eccentic album "Gris-gris". There was real magic in that mojo bag of music. (Your mom went to school with Dr. John? Must be some interesting stories there!) As for Donna Summer, well... what the F?!?!?!?
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Post by timtoast on Sept 29, 2010 11:48:55 GMT -5
I see those legendary rock and rollers, Neil Diamond, Donna Summer and the man my mom went to high school with, Dr. John all made the nominee list. All together now....what the F?!?!?!? An understandable reaction, Timtoast, and yet Neil Diamond, as mushy as much of his career has been, did make some very good records early on and then much later did the same with the help of Rick Ruben. So maybe half a gold star? As for Dr. John, I'd give it to him just for the wildly eccentic album "Gris-gris". There was real magic in that mojo bag of music. (Your mom went to school with Dr. John? Must be some interesting stories there!) As for Donna Summer, well... what the F?!?!?!? I agree Neil Diamond has his good points, just not in the category of Rock N Roll. And no, my Mom has no good Dr. John stories. He was just a fellow student named "Mac" Rebennack to her. He showed no signs of what his future would be.
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gage
First Class Scout
Posts: 168
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Post by gage on Oct 1, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Neil Diamond wrote the Monkee's "I'm a Believer"(among others). That ain't too shabby. I like the J. Geils band, but for the HoF? I don't think so. BTW Peter Wolf's(J Geil's singer) new album is mega-good.
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Post by steveinlouisville on Oct 2, 2010 16:22:13 GMT -5
Neil Diamond wrote the Monkee's "I'm a Believer"(among others). That ain't too shabby. There's a "Songwriter's Hall of Fame" for that. If Neil Diamond isn't already there, he should probably be inducted into that shrine.
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Post by Man Who Never Learned to Fly on Oct 18, 2010 21:31:18 GMT -5
I like the actual, physical museum. It's great to see some of those artifacts.
But I couldn't care less about who Jann Wenner or Dave Marsh like. And that appears to be the criteria for being inducted. I mean, c'mon, the J. Geils Band is fine, but they've got nothing on the FACES, the MATS, the SMITHS, WIRE, BUZZCOCKS, the NEW YORK DOLLS, BIG STAR, the POGUES, HUSKER DU, etc.
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Post by wecantgetanybetter on Oct 30, 2012 1:33:21 GMT -5
I finally made my first visit to the Hall yesterday. What is sad is that I live only an hour away and hadn't taken the time to go. Of course the first thing I wanted to do was look for those lyrics to "Here Comes a Regular." I'm pretty sure I annoyed my friend by running to the gift shop to purchase a souvenir notebook and pen just so I could write them down, because they are very different from the finished song as it appeared on "Tim." Here it is, exactly as he wrote it: A person can work up a mean, mean thirst after a hard day of nothin' much at all Summer's past, it's too late to cut the grass, the other tree died, so there's nothin' to do in the fall Today I just ain't in the mood to take my place in back with the other loudmouths The ground is wet under a harvest moon, sick of living at my father's house Everybody wants to be special here, call our names out loud-n-clear Here comes a regular, share a common name Here comes a regular, am I the only one that feels ashamed Found a drinkin' buddy in another town, but the police said you couldn't stay Probably in the arms of your baby now Wanna great big whiskey and I want you here today Along side some older guy, said you can't miss what you ain't had I'm sick of everything my money can buy He said your crazy and stupid, I said "yeah" If you find a picture please send it soon, make me happy if you did I'd put it next to a picture of a harvest moon drawn by a child hung on the fridge Took that song off the juke box, was my favorite one left Replaced it with a #1 smash hit to listen to only makes me mad Soon the lights come on, stools-n-chairs go up, someone will shout last call The summer's past, soon the snow will kill the rest of the grass Old tree died, there's nothin' to do in the fall I stood there for at least a half an hour; I just couldn't believe I was seeing this. Incredible! Bad news. That lyric sheet's in the basement, along with pretty much everything else they got at the RNRHOF. And Hurricane Sandy's trying to flood the basement. By the way, if you type in "Here Comes a Regular" into the RNRHOF online archives search, it comes up with nothing and says: Did you mean to type: herb or are or come or james or times or regulate or secular or jugular?
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Post by wiser's deluxe on Nov 23, 2012 3:51:13 GMT -5
in regards to the hall of fame, my first and only visit back way back when -- early 2000s -- i discovered going through the song lists in the entry-way that "I Will Dare" was featured, the only 'Mats song that i could find. and that was enough at the time. and it was enough for me to stand there with the headphones on and tear up as my wife stood there and watched and understand the emotions i was enduring. i'm not ashamed to admit that, because it provided me the glimmer of belief that the band i believed in actually carried some resonance and influence beyond what stood as "popular music" of the day. they mattered and that was enough.
well, well, well, i had the opportunity years later to interview Tommy upon his release of "Village Gorilla Head." and i couldn't help during the 20 minute cell phone interview to ask him what he thought about a 'Mats song being included in the Hall in Cleveland. his response was, and i quote:
"I didn’t even know that. Wow. I don’t know if I should feel good or bad about that. Things like that should be something that should be done posthumously. I’m not ready to be dead yet."
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