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Post by wecantgetanybetter on Nov 14, 2009 17:07:09 GMT -5
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Post by jasonizzyj on Nov 15, 2009 0:39:52 GMT -5
I'm not even sure what the argument is. I haven't seen any evidence to support what he says about Let It Be being in the cut-out bin. All of the Replacements albums I've see are full price and I've never even seen used ones for sale (in music stores).
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Post by ClamsCasino on Nov 15, 2009 15:50:29 GMT -5
He claims that Don't Tell A Soul has been relegated to the cut-out bin, while Let It Be hasn't. It's a dumb argument anyway. First of all, neither have actually been relegated to the cut-out bin, because they've both been reissued recently. Second, if you're going to argue that I'll Be You is the "song that ruined the band," don't you think you might want to point out that the lyrics of the song actually support your argument? But he's not interested in that. His only point seems to be that I'll Be You was a "crossover hit" (whatever that means...where did they crossover from?) and that was a bad thing. I think the lyrics show that Paul was letting go of the band before the song was even recorded.
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Post by timtoast on Nov 15, 2009 16:36:27 GMT -5
Sadly, I bought my LP copy of Don't Tell a Soul in the cutout bin many years ago...
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Post by kgp on Nov 15, 2009 17:57:21 GMT -5
Sadly, I bought my LP copy of Don't Tell a Soul in the cutout bin many years ago... I think I bought all my Replacements albums, plus Paul's first two solo records in the cutout bin. Paid a whopping buck-fifty for Bash & Pop's Friday Night is Killing Me. Now that's sad. |
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Post by worldclassfad on Nov 16, 2009 17:20:53 GMT -5
I always loved finding things in cutout bins, but sadly I havent seen a cutout bin since I was about 12 years old! When I was young I found a cassette copy of Dont Tell A Soul, cd copies of 14 Songs by PW, Blast Off & Choo Choo Hot Fish by The Stray Cats, all in the same cutout bin. I was supposed to use the money my mom gave me to get a haircut, but I came back with a bag full of music that was gonna change my life!
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Post by brianlux on Nov 16, 2009 19:33:35 GMT -5
"I'll Be You" wrecked the band? Naaaaaw!
Cut out bins? 'Mats? Naaaaw.
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Post by Philip Garcia on Nov 16, 2009 19:35:01 GMT -5
I definitely think this author is full of it, and just shows that while the band grew up (for better or worse), he did not. It wasn't the "crossover hit" that changed the mats, and it definitely didn't cause their demise. I think the author is pointing to the "result", and claiming it's the cause of the mats ending. By now most of us know that the mats were slowly falling apart by the time DTAS came out. Bob was long out of the band, and paul was off doing more and more of his own thing. All shook down was basically a paul solo album, but with the 'mats mark on it. Claiming that them having a "hit" caused this demise is just laughable. The band had unfortunately run it's course, and it was time to move on. They were no longer kids playing punk rock, and had grown up ....
The idea that DTAS got relegated to the cut out bin has some truth to it. But only in that more copies of it were produced than were sold, at least originally. This has little to do with it being a bad album or anything like that, it just has to do with supply and demand. If a million copies of let it be had been made, you know it would be filling the cut out bins. Of course, today the story is very different. As was said before, DTAS has been rereleased . . . that's not something that is done if the labels can't sell their existing stock of the album.
As for the existence of cutout bins... I think they've largely been discontinued, although they might just get sold to used CD stores who put them on the used shelves. I know many of the used CDs I buy are cutouts, so it could just be that that is what they do with them. It could also be that because CDs are so much cheaper to manufacture than LPs and Cassettes that it makes more sense (from a profit perspective) for the labels to destroy excess inventory than to sell it so cheaply. That said, the mats aren't exactly a band you easily found used copies of. I think I bought most of them used in the late 90s, but a few I had to buy new because there wasn't much choice. Now you can find many of the albums at the used stores, but only because many people bought the remasters and sold their original copies. Personally, I am attached to the original copies for sentimental reasons, and don't see myself selling them.
Phil
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Post by hudson99 on Nov 17, 2009 9:13:18 GMT -5
As for the existence of cutout bins... I think they've largely been discontinued, although they might just get sold to used CD stores who put them on the used shelves. I know many of the used CDs I buy are cutouts, so it could just be that that is what they do with them. It could also be that because CDs are so much cheaper to manufacture than LPs and Cassettes that it makes more sense (from a profit perspective) for the labels to destroy excess inventory than to sell it so cheaply. That said, the mats aren't exactly a band you easily found used copies of. I think I bought most of them used in the late 90s, but a few I had to buy new because there wasn't much choice. Now you can find many of the albums at the used stores, but only because many people bought the remasters and sold their original copies. Personally, I am attached to the original copies for sentimental reasons, and don't see myself selling them. Phil There's really no such thing as a cutout market anymore. It used to be that the labels would sell their deleted product to secondary companies to sell as cutouts. These days, with CD's so cheap to manufacture, the record companies just destroy excessive inventory. What you're seeing as cutouts is primarily promos that label people are known to use for secondary income. |
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cford
Star Scout
Posts: 803
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Post by cford on Nov 17, 2009 11:50:24 GMT -5
I definitely think this author is full of it, Phil Yea, I don't know why writer's like to pick on I'll Be You...it was definately the best thing on the radio in its day..(if that's saying much).. I think they are going on the stereotype that the bigger the hit the worse the song.. I saw another similar article a couple of years ago...a writer had created a list called "Bad Songs By Good Bands"... and, of course, I'll Be You was represented. CF |
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Post by scoOter on Nov 17, 2009 15:43:33 GMT -5
"A crossover hit can open a band to new audiences and new opportunities; however, it does so at the risk of alienating fans who have fostered an identification with the band (“This is MY band, not yours”)."
the author betrays his objectivity here, i think. maybe. perhaps it isn't his own personal bias when it comes to the 'mats, specifically, but his tendancy to be "indier than thou" in general?
i don't know. i don't know him. but i do know that he is full of shit. i'm not sure how big a "hit" i'll be you was (i was always under the impression that "don't tell a soul" was a failed attempt at "making it big"), but i do know that i'll be you was my major introduction to the band.
and now look at me! and now look at most any of us... show me the def leppard listening mallrat who bought "don't tell a soul" on the back of i'll be you, and didn't become a big-to-ginormous fan; someone who didn't pick up all the rest of the catalog, and is not buying what paul & tommy put out to this day.
i'm looking for the person who bought the i'll be you cassingle, but stopped listening to that "hit" when whitesnake came out with a new album.
that would be a true "crossover", and you know what? it just didn't happen with the replacements. they were doomed from the start, and they knew it. by "don't tell a soul" their career longevity light was flickering, and has nothing to do with that one song. if anything that track is a commentary about what was happening around them, and it is a pretty good one at that.
people have said "[velvet underground/pixies/replacements/etc.] didn't have many fans, but every one of them started a band of their own", and i think this is very true statement. the really good underdog bands out there engender fanaticism; not fleeting fame.
what the author is really asking is "when is it ok to start liking a band?", and for that i offer a hearty "eff him" in response. i wasn't there drinking mad dog in the basement when "sorry ma" came out. i was 9. i can't help it that i was exposed to them due to the video for i'll be you, but you know what, random interthingy blogger? i think i have more than proven i am a worthy fan, and not some jackhole who got charmed by some shiny new quarter on mtv for a few moments in the late 80s. basically, no one should feel bad about becoming a fan of a quality rock & roll outfit. it's what you do with your fandom that matters in that small world of subjective musical taste. and for those who are all "this is my band!", get over it. unless you are in the band, it isn't yours, and it never was.
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Post by Philip Garcia on Nov 17, 2009 18:05:28 GMT -5
Scooter, I couldn't agree with your sentiments more on this issue. Personally, I don't see it much if at all in the 'mats, as they never hit it big, so not many people go off about that. However that being said, I got into the 'mats because I'm a huge Soul Asylum fan....
Talk about a band where you hear this stuff non stop about how they were aiming for a hit when they wrote runaway train, etc. People really have no clue with what they're talking about. I know Soul Asylum got over exposed with runaway train, but on the forums I post on, I know many people who first got into them because of that song, and later got into their back catalog etc. I personally am younger and didn't get into them until Let Your Dim Light Shine, and find nothing wrong with that. The exposure of these bands does create a backlash, and the older fans do get annoyed with it, but they generally will stick through it unless the band really becomes a hit-making machine where their goal is to please the radio and label gods or whatever. The nice thing is they will create new fans out of it.
Sure many of the new fans will listen for their 15 minutes of fame and forget it, but some will stick around. I know tons of people who have stuck around because of that random radio air play, and it's literally changed their life and the music they listened to. As I said before, had soul asylum not been on the radio, I don't know if I would have gotten into them, I like to believe I would have, but it hit me at a time when I was young, and the radio was what I listened to. Since getting into them, my whole appreciation for music has changed. They got me started on the whole minneapolis scene (replacements, jayhawks, husker du, trip shakespeare, the honeydogs, the hang ups, etc), then into the whole alt country thing from the hawks and golden smog, and into the whole power pop side of things. The hooks were set, and they got me, my life was changed.
Honestly the whole better than thou fandom gets to me in most cases.... I will make an exception with Wilco . . . That's just because the whole "indie" mindset that picked up on YHF annoy me. The people who would have scorned uncle tupelo were adoring these guys, and it just didn't seem right. That, and the fact that they were no longer playing small club shows that you could buy tickets for the day of... Honestly if a band is playing and I can't get tickets the day of the show, I'm far less likely to go.
Phil
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Post by GoddamnJob290 on Nov 17, 2009 19:53:38 GMT -5
Anyone ever notice how "Left of the Dial," "Alex Chilton," and "I'll Be You" are the only Replacements songs when the band is starting to lull into a little bit of a formula? All three songs build to a dramatic lull and then come roaring back with raging power pop guitars to end it. Not a knock on any of those songs, just an observation that Paul seemed in love with this particular tempo shift.
I also don't think "I'll Be You" wrecked the band in any way; musically, lyrically, aesthetically, etc... It's a good radio single, a commentary on the band masked somewhat as a love song, the sort of post-punk/Cheap Trick power pop that everyone from Nirvana to Weezer would take to the bank a few short years later. It isn't a typically dumbed down guitar song either; check out those odd Beatles-esque chord changes (I'm reminded of "Tax Man") and that great guitar melody. Kicks much ass, but it's as pretty as the best Alex Chilton riff. Just a perfect meshing of their influences in a way that's distinctly Replacements. The gloss of DTAS actually suits the song better here than the lo-fi of the Twin/Tone stuff would; I don't hear Eddie Money like some have claimed, I hear #1 Record.
And I agree with what others have said here. The band never stood a chance from the start and the Tom Petty tour, not so much the DTAS album on its own or one song in particular, is what dealt the killing blow. This is just the penultimate chapter in the story of the band.
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