Nickel
First Class Scout
Posts: 191
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Post by Nickel on Apr 9, 2005 16:04:47 GMT -5
I have the LA shows and they have gaps. I have people waiting to reweed to. But I see other threads where it sounds uncool to reweed with gaps.
Personally I don't mind them, but I cannot figure out how to remove the gaps.
I have RecordNow from Sonic and Music Match at my disposal.
I read the Sonic help files and there is no feature to remove gaps in it.
Using music match, I ripped the originals I rec'd to MP3's and tried to re-burn with the "2 second gap" between songs turned OFF. Still no luck. I think the gaps may be imbedded in the original source files I have.
Advice? I'd like to get this right, but it is sort tough working with a CD that already has the gaps.
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Nickel
First Class Scout
Posts: 191
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Post by Nickel on Apr 9, 2005 16:18:48 GMT -5
OK, I think I got it after using google to search TAO and DAO. I have to set the burner software specs from TAO (Track at Once) to DAO (Disk at Once).
I am testing it now to see if it will fix a source disk that has the gaps.
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Post by hudson99 on Apr 9, 2005 16:26:55 GMT -5
No, the gaps will remain...although they may be shorter.
You have to use a editing program (Feurio promises to remove gaps but it doesn't completely take them out). It's a bit time consuming but it's not that hard. You open the files in the editing program and just delete the parts sections that show nothing but a straight line in the wave form diagram of the song.
I'm currently trying to find a couple of spare hours to fix the San Fran show.
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Nickel
First Class Scout
Posts: 191
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Post by Nickel on Apr 9, 2005 16:28:55 GMT -5
Ya, just finished my test and the gaps are still there. Bummer.
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Post by GtrPlyr on Apr 9, 2005 16:49:28 GMT -5
A lot of the programs that say they remove gaps are far from perfect, and often leave silent portions after they're supposedly done.
I like using "Sound Forge" for editing out gaps. I believe you can also use the wave editor on NERO to remove the gaps. Unfortunately, individual editing of tracks seems to be the only sure way of getting rid of all the gaps. It's a bit tedious, but once you've done a few you should be able to do it fairly quick.
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Pete
Star Scout
Silver Naked Scout
Posts: 304
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Post by Pete on Apr 9, 2005 16:53:29 GMT -5
If it turns out your original is also burned TAO, then try to rip with EAC (Exact Audio Copy) selecting "delete leading and trailing silent blocks" on EAC--> EAC Options --> Extraction. Not always works, but it has worked before in the past.
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Post by WestyTarheel on Apr 9, 2005 20:46:46 GMT -5
I have a copy of SF coming from the original taper re-burned as DAO, so if you guys will be patient, I will weed it out when it comes to me.
If you have read my other posts, you will see that I am a stickler for the best available copy being what is out there, with everyone trying to remove gaps on their own, there is going to be 50 different versions of this out there. Not telling you not to do it, but be patient and it will be coming soon.
All the other shows are readily available as DAO. If you have a copy of LA 1 or 2 or Denver as TAO, then the person that sent it to you F'd it up and they should re-burn it for you correctly if you contact them, I know if I screwed up, I would make it right.
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Pete
Star Scout
Silver Naked Scout
Posts: 304
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Post by Pete on Apr 9, 2005 21:36:22 GMT -5
I have a copy of SF coming from the original taper re-burned as DAO, so if you guys will be patient, I will weed it out when it comes to me. If you have read my other posts, you will see that I am a stickler for the best available copy being what is out there, with everyone trying to remove gaps on their own, there is going to be 50 different versions of this out there. Not telling you not to do it, but be patient and it will be coming soon. All the other shows are readily available as DAO. If you have a copy of LA 1 or 2 or Denver as TAO, then the person that sent it to you F'd it up and they should re-burn it for you correctly if you contact them, I know if I screwed up, I would make it right. I received a version of both LA nights and wasn't told it was burned TAO. But mistakes happen and you just got to move on. But your right nobody should be circulating copies like this. |
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Post by Cotton on Apr 9, 2005 22:59:27 GMT -5
I have a copy of SF coming from the original taper re-burned as DAO, so if you guys will be patient, I will weed it out when it comes to me. If you have read my other posts, you will see that I am a stickler for the best available copy being what is out there, with everyone trying to remove gaps on their own, there is going to be 50 different versions of this out there. Not telling you not to do it, but be patient and it will be coming soon. All the other shows are readily available as DAO. If you have a copy of LA 1 or 2 or Denver as TAO, then the person that sent it to you F'd it up and they should re-burn it for you correctly if you contact them, I know if I screwed up, I would make it right. I dl'd the torrents from easytree and Started the weed for LA 1/2 and Denver ... burning 8 exact copies from the FLACS... which I shared with other board members... unlike you I can tolerate a two second gap in between tracks, similar to any professional release out there. I believe Nickel my have been one of the people who recieved copies of these shows. Should he decide to contact me... I'll kindly point him your direction and all that you've offered to this site! Perhaps this casual, generous weeding board isn't the place for me? Or perhaps it's not the place for a Pro Trader like you? |
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Nickel
First Class Scout
Posts: 191
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Post by Nickel on Apr 9, 2005 23:17:53 GMT -5
Personally I don't mind the gaps, but after reading some of the other threads I got a little paranoid - this is my first weeding experience. I'd rather be smoking it right now.
Basically I've PM'd those who I need to re-weed to and asked them if they mind the gaps.
Maybe the best thing to do for the LA shows is to note whether the copies have gaps or not. I really don't know what else to do. I don't have time to ty to remove them. I spent a few hours today trying to do that.
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Post by WestyTarheel on Apr 10, 2005 0:39:39 GMT -5
I dl'd the torrents from easytree and Started the weed for LA 1/2 and Denver ... burning 8 exact copies from the FLACS... which I shared with other board members... unlike you I can tolerate a two second gap in between tracks, similar to any professional release out there. I believe Nickel my have been one of the people who recieved copies of these shows. Should he decide to contact me... I'll kindly point him your direction and all that you've offered to this site! Perhaps this casual, generous weeding board isn't the place for me? Or perhaps it's not the place for a Pro Trader like you? First of all, I have never purchase a commercial "live" release with a 2 second gap between songs. That is what we are talking about, live music, not studio music. Second, I am not trying to start an argument here, and meant nothing personal in my first post, although you obviously felt that I did and took this topic in that direction. My belief is that if you are new to the weeding and live music trading, and from the fact that it was burned wrong, the burning portion of this hobby, then I would suggest you participate as a recipient of the weeds and not a weeder. It is frustrating as a trader to get a show that was mp3 sourced or to get a show that is burned TAO. All I am doing is trying to stop it from continuing when I can. The reason I am saying something is to make people aware, a lot of people here are new to this and don't know what is considered right and wrong. Don't take offense, because none was meant. I am advocating for a concept, not against a person. One last thing, I have not taken any potshots until now. The end of your post seemed to be taking a potshot at me for what I have not offered up on this site. While I have not weeded it here, you may want to head over to www.dimeadozen.org and download a copy of the Seattle show Paul did. I recorded it. I spent $350 to fly to Seattle from North Carolina, took my taping rig which I have about $700 invested in, plus money for lodging and food while there. So, the way I see it, I have over $1000 invested to see the show and make a copy that is being shared for the enjoyment of people like you, and then get bad-mouthed because I don't want to see a something that I spent so much time, effort, and money on get degraded because people don't care. It is this attitude that may persuade me to not share the Vancouver, Portland, and Austin shows that I have as well. I am perfectly content to enjoy them myself. I am off my soapbox now. The gist of this entire message is just to try to trade and weed the best possible copy of what is available. If along the way something happens to degrade the product, then look at it as your responsibility to stop it right there. If you downloaded the LA shows and you had the 2-second gaps after your burned them, then you should have stopped it right there. You can be happy with the 2-second gaps, but, as you can see by this topic, others are not happy. That is why this topic was started, to ask people how to fix what was not acceptable. In closing, anyone that got a bad copy from Cottonwood, and would like a good copy, please PM me and I will get one in the mail to you. Make sure you specify what show you are asking for. Rob |
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Post by WestyTarheel on Apr 10, 2005 0:45:32 GMT -5
Using music match, I ripped the originals I rec'd to MP3's and tried to re-burn with the "2 second gap" between songs turned OFF. Still no luck. I think the gaps may be imbedded in the original source files I have. A couple of pointers here: 1. Never convert to MP3 and then burn again. When you convert to MP3, it does away with the highs and lows, you can see it in a wave spectrum, and you can hear it, it is very noticeable through headphones. 2. Whenever you burn something and burn as TAO, it does add two seconds to the beginning of the song. If you are watching the time of a track on the cd player while it is playing, you will see it count as -2, then -1, then 0 seconds and the song will start. These two seconds are embedded into the track, and somewhat difficult to remove. The best way is to cut the extra time off, then crossfade the two tracks together and split again. It is very time consuming. |
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Post by Cotton on Apr 10, 2005 4:10:07 GMT -5
Without spending the time to disect your last posts...
Clarifications: Nickel wasn't one of the people I sent copies to. But, like I said, I was the one who took the initiative to start weeding these shows. For people who do not have broadband and cannot dl torrents.
My disc copies of LA 1/2, Denver & Seattle are all DAO and were burned using the same program- Sonic, at the same time as I burned the others.
I'll concede that one of the EIGHT people I sent copies to did mention that they were TAO.
My Sonic program is set to DAO.
We have a different interpretation of 'why' this thread was started. (reread the thread)
Yes, my last posts were digs at you. Prior to your last post, you had been doing a lot of arm chair quarterbacking. ... "the person that sent it to you F'd it up" ... " did the original taper screw this one up?"...
"the only thing worse than getting an MP3 sourced show in a trade (or weed) is getting a show burned as TAO."..."I would suggest pulling them from your weed as only good copies of shows should be traded. You should also contact the person that sent them to you and request a good copy be sent to you."...
"it should be their responsibility to make it right "
Since I was the one to start weeding these shows, yes, I do take it personally. (nothing to do with SF & KC and their gap issues)
Until your last post you didn't offer anything but criticism.
I see that as of tonight, 4/9, a torrent of Seattle is on easytree. ( i know et was down for a few days, so you can use that for cover, but LA still has a Feb. add date.) I also see the you are now willing to weed copies to ppl. who read your post and PM you.
It seems like... " It is this attitude that may persuade me to not share the Vancouver, Portland, and Austin shows that I have as well. I am perfectly content to enjoy them myself." is EXACTLY what you have been doing.
"get degraded because people don't care." Where do you get this from? I MAY have made a mistake, but don't care?
Finally, don't get all f*ckin' mary on me and be pissed at the board - I'm speaking directly to you and speaking for myself.
Get off your ass and offer up a some free, conditionless weeds of the shows you have to MWT members. You can even provide instructions on how to properly reweed.
Don't worry I won't ask you for any copies, as much as I'd like some of those shows.
Cottonwood
To the ppl. who I sent copies to: If in fact I did send you TAO copies and the gaps between songs bother you, PM me and I'll send you DAO's. I freely admit that I didn't listen to all 48 discs prior to starting these weeds.
Please don't reweed TAO's.
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Post by mrblasty on Apr 10, 2005 7:42:53 GMT -5
Don't worry I won't ask you for any copies, as much as I'd like some of those shows. Well, seeing that Rob taped the shows, you will be getting them from him. Maybe not directly.... |
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Post by WestyTarheel on Apr 10, 2005 8:15:41 GMT -5
Without spending the time to disect your last posts... Clarifications: Nickel wasn't one of the people I sent copies to. We have a different interpretation of 'why' this thread was started. (reread the thread) Since I was the one to start weeding these shows, yes, I do take it personally. (nothing to do with SF & KC and their gap issues) Until your last post you didn't offer anything but criticism. I see that as of tonight, 4/9, a torrent of Seattle is on easytree. ( i know et was down for a few days, so you can use that for cover, but LA still has a Feb. add date.) I also see the you are now willing to weed copies to ppl. who read your post and PM you. It seems like... " It is this attitude that may persuade me to not share the Vancouver, Portland, and Austin shows that I have as well. I am perfectly content to enjoy them myself." is EXACTLY what you have been doing. "get degraded because people don't care." Where do you get this from? I MAY have made a mistake, but don't care? Finally, don't get all f*ckin' mary on me and be pissed at the board - I'm speaking directly to you and speaking for myself. Get off your ass and offer up a some free, conditionless weeds of the shows you have to MWT members. You can even provide instructions on how to properly reweed. A couple of replies to statements above: 1. If Nickel wasn't one of the people that you weeded to, then nothing applied to you, it sounds like you did it right. 2. I know exactly why the thread was started. The original poster said "I have the LA shows and they have gaps. I have people waiting to reweed to. But I see other threads where it sounds uncool to reweed with gaps." My post was meant to let the guy know that if he had TAO, he should not try to fix it, but get a good copy of the show from whoever sent it to him. 3. Again, if you didn't send them out incorrectly (which is what you implied in an earlier post when you said that you thought you did send to Nickel), then this is not directed at you. 4. Within three days of returning home, 15 copies of this show were burned and mailed to people, some that frequent this board, and some that don't. I also, a few weeks later, had this show weeded on another board that I visit. It is not my responsibility to see that people here get it, but I did see it as my responsibility to get it out there. Do you have a copy of the Chapel Hill 2002 show? That was mine also, I sent out 12 copies of that two days after the show to AMR people. I think Kathy may have had MP3's of it here for people when she got hers. I have done more than my share of getting the things I record out there. Use a little initiative, and you will find a copy of the Dallas show I recorded floating around, I have started that with sending 15-20 copies out as well, all at my own expense. 5. Reread where this statement came from. It was a generalized statement, not directed toward an individual. And again, you clarified that you did not send the bad copy that started this thread, so this generalized statement was not directed at you. 6. I am not upset at the board, and never said I was. I just want to educate people and make them understand that there are a lot of people out there that care they are listening to the best that is out there. 7. It is not my responsibility to send this show out to a certain subset of people. I get it to my friends and people I trade with. I have only gotten one show from here that I didn't previously have (and that was an alternate version of KC from Hudson) and he got a copy of this show in return. As I stated about, I have sent at least 30 copies of this show out in the mail, and it is readily available with a little effort. The rest are out there to, if someone takes the initiative to look and not sit around and have it spoonfed to them. |
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Tars
Tenderfoot
I see dead rabbits
Posts: 15
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Post by Tars on Apr 10, 2005 9:25:08 GMT -5
Good idea about asking. I'd be careful about who you choose to spend your effort and time on sending these to.  You should probably take the time to recognise the people you are condemning. If it wasn't for the people you are slamming, you wouldn't have these shows. How many have you taped? How much money have you spent buying the equipment to tape? How many chances have you taken to record a show? How many times have you driven 4-5 to a show to tape it, and distribute it FREE to other fans? How many hours have you spent transfering that show to cd? I don't know how long you've been in the trading community, but rule #1 is NEVER, NEVER, pas on a defective show. Of any kind. That means MP3 sourced, gaps, clicks, incomplete, whatever. Funny thing is, there are at least a hundred Replacements/Westerberg shows that have not been released to the public and if people keep beings dicks about getting free stuff, they'll probably stay there, for a select few to enjoy.... |
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Post by A Regular on Apr 10, 2005 9:40:23 GMT -5
Funny thing is, there are at least a hundred Replacements/Westerberg shows that have not been released to the public and if people keep beings dicks about getting free stuff, they'll probably stay there, for a select few to enjoy.... Well, if Indy '02 or New Orleans '05 happen to be one of those still buried shows that are in the hands of a few, how do I go about joining this club?  |
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Tars
Tenderfoot
I see dead rabbits
Posts: 15
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Post by Tars on Apr 10, 2005 9:51:28 GMT -5
Well, if Indy '02 .... happen to be one of those still buried shows that are in the hands of a few, how do I go about joining this club? Vogue Theater? No know tape exists. NOLA will probably show up eventually (no pun intended)  |
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Post by GtrPlyr on Apr 10, 2005 11:19:33 GMT -5
Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth: Anytime a show is sent to someone DAO, and they re-weed it TAO, they should be responsible for re-sending a gapless version. That's the only fair thing to do. Yes, anyone can mistakes from time to time, but you should also be willing to correct them when you do. I also D/L the L.A. and Seatlle shows from EZT and as far as I can recall, neither had any gaps between the songs. So if someone d/l them from that site, and sent out copies with TAO gaps they should be willing to correct their mistake. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect copies to be DAO and non-MP3 sourced. If someone is knew to burning live shows to disc and the whole weeding thing, there are many resources online that can help out. Basic Trading/Weeding Rules that seem to be fairly universal: When copying a disc, use EAC to extract the songs to your hard drive. This software is free and can be d/l from here www.exactaudiocopy.de/Always burn discs in Disc-At-Once mode unless otherwise noted. Don't burn discs faster than 8x, and don't run other applications when burning discs. Use decent media when trading such as Taiyo Yuden, or Japanese made Fuji or Verbatim discs. When mailing discs use Bubble Mailers and CD Sleeves with one disc to a sleeve. Don't write anywhere on the disc surface including the hub. Instead leave a post-it note on the disc with the description of its contents. Let the person you're trading with know when you send out the discs. If you're waiting for discs in the mail, let the person know when you recieve the discs. |
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Post by WestyTarheel on Apr 10, 2005 11:32:41 GMT -5
Don't write anywhere on the disc surface including the hub. Instead leave a post-it note on the disc with the description of its contents. I agree with everything you said except this, and I will tell you why. I had someone send me a disc this way once, and when I removed the post-it note, it took some of the surface paint on the disc with it, leaving a portion of the disc as totally clear. The reflective coating was gone so the disc was not readable by any player. Since then, I have always sent a disc in a sleeve or inside a nicely folded piece of legal size paper with the show written on the outside of the sleeve. I do put two-disc shows in the same sleeve, stacked topside-to-topside. I denote disc one with one small dot from a sharpie on the disc hub and disc two with two small dots. |
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