Best Pop Song Potential - Mats/PW division

[headlightbeams]

Which Mats or PW songs had or have the best potential as pop songs?

Never mind if the recording could use different production or would need different arrangements to qualify as pop. Which songs, lyrics and music, would make the best pop songs?

My favorite in the pop sweeptakes is "Kiss Me on the Bus." It's got: classic theme (kiss me) paired with location rescued from mundaneness (the bus) and a winning pun (bus=lips). And that's just the title.

[The Indoor Boy]

They're Blind has always struck me as being a potential pop contender. A smart lyric, not too snarky, the girl. It would fit.

[Wolfdog]

those are both good ones....I would say As Far As I Know is a nearly perfect pop song.

[nazareth]

Definitely "Love Untold." It's got the ol' love and heartbreak idea, and it's just a great gosh darnin' pop song.

[Chris]

"Seein Her," "Stain Yer Blood" and "Far As I Know" all are shoulda woulda coulda been hits. Course Big Star never had a hit either....

[brianlux]

All of the above plus "Born For Me" as a great pop ballad.

[cford]

Ok...these are all good choices... But, to put a slightly different slant on this thread.... Why were none of these songs huge hits?

CF

[brianlux]

cford said:

Ok...these are all good choices... But, to put a slightly different slant on this thread.... Why were none of these songs huge hits?

CF

Good point, CF. We've all been wondering about this for a long time. Probably because the listening public is.....no, I just can't be that cynical today, but y'all know what I'm sayin', right?! Sad thing is, look what so many people are missing.

[kgp]

I'd agree with 'Love Untold.' At the time it sounded like a blatant attempt at writing a 'hit song (and I think Paul even admitted it later interviews).' Any of the de facto 'hits' could have been huge: 'Can't Hardly Wait,' 'I'll Be You,' 'Achin' To Be'...

I don't know why any those didn't break the band (or Paul as as solo artist) into the mainstream. Bad timing? Their own stubbornness?

Good point, CF. We've all been wondering about this for a long time. Probably because the listening public is.....no, I just can't be that cynical today, but y'all know what I'm sayin', right?! Sad thing is, look what so many people are missing.

The unwashed masses aren't tasteless as much as they are clueless. Twenty, fifteen, or even ten years ago, we didn't have the resources we do now, and almost everyone discovered a new band by turning on the radio or watching MTV (hey, I first heard the Replacements on rock radio). I've never really cottoned to the 'us against them-ness' in indie-rock, alt-rock, whatever.

[Wolfdog]

cford said:

Ok...these are all good choices... But, to put a slightly different slant on this thread.... Why were none of these songs huge hits?

CF

I think the easy answer is that none of them have the big 'push' of a chart-hitting label behind them. the radio payola money, the careful marketing strategies, the careful production process maybe passing through the hands of Bob Clearmountain, Mutt Lange, or FlyteTyme, and probably more importantly....an artist that's willing to sell himself to a broad audience and play the game.

In the world of billboard hits, great pop songs take a backseat to money, image, and fads.

[kgp]

wolfdog said:

I think the easy answer is that none of them have the big 'push' of a chart-hitting label behind them. the radio payola money, the careful marketing strategies, the careful production process maybe passing through the hands of Bob Clearmountain, Mutt Lange, or FlyteTyme, and probably more importantly....an artist that's willing to sell himself to a broad audience and play the game.

In the world of billboard hits, great pop songs take a backseat to money, image, and fads.

Sire, from what I've read, did put the big push behind them. Not to defend Sire, but the Replacements were hardly ignored. Of course they didn't exactly endear themselves to anyone who could have helped them to stardom.

[Wolfdog]

kgp said:

Sire, from what I've read, did put the big push behind them. Not to defend Sire, but the Replacements were hardly ignored. Of course they didn't exactly endear themselves to anyone who could have helped them to stardom.

Im sure Sire did what they could, but I guess I look at it that compared to the media exposure and push behind something like REM's Green, other bands that made the major switch around the same time (Mats, Huskers) didnt reach the attention of the 'target market' public.

And yes, I agree...even though I think PW would have and still would like the attention of the broad market, he would never do the dog and pony show to make that happen. I can't see him on TRL lip-synching his new single and then fielding 'oh my god' questions from the 'hip' target demo looking for the next John Mayer.

[nazareth]

cford said:

Ok...these are all good choices... But, to put a slightly different slant on this thread.... Why were none of these songs huge hits?

CF

I wonder if it's because somehow people saw through it. I'm talking about the songs that Paul wrote specifically for the charts (Love Untold, etc.). It seems to me that he never really looked genuine as a pop star. Especially when you look on all the Late shows he's performed on throughout the years. Most if not all were bad. It seems like he (and the 'Mats) would always find a way to F-up. Whether it was intentional or not could go either way. I'm sure Paul would take either side of the argument depending on what day you asked him.

[nazareth]

I'm waiting for that one dude that says "Gary's Got a Boner" on every thread like this. Maybe that's it........Maybe nobody wanted to buy Paul's albums because they didn't want to hear..........Gary's Got a Boner, Trumpet Clip, Silver Naked Ladies, Jingle, etc.......

[GoddamnJob290]

nazareth said:

I'm waiting for that one dude that says "Gary's Got a Boner" on every thread like this. Maybe that's it........Maybe nobody wanted to buy Paul's albums because they didn't want to hear..........Gary's Got a Boner, Trumpet Clip, Silver Naked Ladies, Jingle, etc.......

All those songs are GREAT! (I'm serious, especially "Jingle" and "Trumpet Clip" IMO).

Historically, being signed to Sire didn't promise crossover success. Sure, there's been plenty of success stories (you could name them better than I), but other groups besides The Replacements like Dinosaur Jr., My Bloody Valentine, Richard Hell & The Voidiods, The Dead Boys, etc.. were all signed to Sire and didn't have a crossover hit. Of course, there's also Sire "alternative rock" success stories like the Talking Heads and Blondie, who did manage those crossover hits (while somewhat staying college radio level). Even The Ramones weren't commercially successful to a large extent.

Maybe Sire wasn't the label to break them or perhaps it's more likely that the "alternative music" boom was just set in stone to happen in the 90s, not the 80s.

Of course, there's always the fact that the Replacements/Paul seemed to have only half-wanted to be successful anyway. You have to more or less go right for it. The idea of just stumbling blindly into success (i.e. the rock and roll fantasy with all that corporate B.S. cut out) seems to be little more than a myth. Perhaps that's what the Replacements were going for and it just never happened.

Or maybe it would have if they had kept remaking Tim well into the early 90s. Who knows.

[timtoast]

nazareth said:

I'm waiting for that one dude that says "Gary's Got a Boner" on every thread like this.

Hey, I'm happy/embarrassed that I made such a lasting impression on you, but you obviously missed the New Year's resolution thread a few weeks back that someone started and in which I promised to lay off the Gary's Got a Boner joke. It was a good ride, but alas, one in which I may have driven too far......

To seriously reply to this thread, Love Untold to me was always a very un-radio friendly song. The couple doesn't end up together and the "underwear" line is very un-popish.
I agree with Seein' Her (very Love orientated), My Daydream (ditto), and World Class fad (rocking hard).

I recently got a copy of the DVD with all their videos and I didn't remember how much the band really, really looks like they are NOT enjoying themselves. My memory told me When It Began was a good video for them, the DVD proves otherwise. So....the comments about the band not fully participating in their own promotion played a big role in their lack of Pop Potential.

[GoddamnJob290]

timtoast said:

nazareth said:

I'm waiting for that one dude that says "Gary's Got a Boner" on every thread like this.

Hey, I'm happy/embarrassed that I made such a lasting impression on you, but you obviously missed the New Year's resolution thread a few weeks back that someone started and in which I promised to lay off the Gary's Got a Boner joke. It was a good ride, but alas, one in which I may have driven too far......

To seriously reply to this thread, Love Untold to me was always a very un-radio friendly song. The couple doesn't end up together and the "underwear" line is very un-popish.
I agree with Seein' Her (very Love orientated), My Daydream (ditto), and World Class fad (rocking hard).

I recently got a copy of the DVD with all their videos and I didn't remember how much the band really, really looks like they are NOT enjoying themselves. My memory told me When It Began was a good video for them, the DVD proves otherwise. So....the comments about the band not fully participating in their own promotion played a big role in their lack of Pop Potential.

I haven't seen the "When It Began" video, but I can agree with you, having seen the "Merry Go Round" video, which was highlighted by two things:

1)The funky strobe light

2)How miserable they all looked.

[The Indoor Boy]

zophael979 said:

timtoast said:

Hey, I'm happy/embarrassed that I made such a lasting impression on you, but you obviously missed the New Year's resolution thread a few weeks back that someone started and in which I promised to lay off the Gary's Got a Boner joke. It was a good ride, but alas, one in which I may have driven too far......

To seriously reply to this thread, Love Untold to me was always a very un-radio friendly song. The couple doesn't end up together and the "underwear" line is very un-popish.
I agree with Seein' Her (very Love orientated), My Daydream (ditto), and World Class fad (rocking hard).

I recently got a copy of the DVD with all their videos and I didn't remember how much the band really, really looks like they are NOT enjoying themselves. My memory told me When It Began was a good video for them, the DVD proves otherwise. So....the comments about the band not fully participating in their own promotion played a big role in their lack of Pop Potential.

I haven't seen the "When It Began" video, but I can agree with you, having seen the "Merry Go Round" video, which was highlighted by two things:

1)The funky strobe light

2)How miserable they all looked.

I must have this DVD. I demand the particulars.

As to the faliure of operation chart top, I compare their 'push' to that of American Music Club a few years later. Both bands with a long history of operating outside the mainstream, both - taking the When it Began/Wish the World Away videos as evidence - bands who looked utterly miserable/uncomfortable in what was supposed to be promotional material. Throw in an ambivalent attitude to the business of mega-selling and you have a good chunk of the reason for faliure.

[cford]

[quote author=rallan board=generalpw thread=1137962257 post=1138089921[/quote]

I must have this DVD. I demand the particulars.

[/quote]


Aren't all the Mats videos packaged as a bonus feature on the All For Nothing compilation? Of course, it would not exactly be DVD format..

CF

[pline]

After the song's intro, I always thought Fugitive Kind was one of his most pop.

I immediately ran out and bought Suicaine when it was released - but after a quick listen (or sampling, rather) and with some disappointment I put it aside for a while (I've since grown to love it for what it is and listen to it frequently).

I decided to "force" myself to listen to it one day on a long drive and discovered Fugitive Kind. I was preoccupied with driving and actually let the intro finish and was floored by its catchiness. I can still remember pulling into a parking lot and listening to the song 3 or 4 times in a row.

There are others from SG that I like more now (It's a Wonderful Lie, Born for Me, etc.) - but I still like it.