You Expect Professionalism?

[ElegantMule]

Okay, so, on a related note,

How much would be too much to pay for a PW show?


At what pricepoint do you start to cringe?


And does it matter if there is a lightshow?

[Nickel]

I would pay $50 for Paul. $100 if I could be gauranteed a spot where the three people standing in front of me were shorter than me.

[angela]

Nickel said:

I would pay $50 for Paul. $100 if I could be gauranteed a spot where the three people standing in front of me were shorter than me.

Same here. PW is absolutely the only person I would pay close to $100 for ever again and that's only for a guaranteed perfect spot. General admission, $50. I'd pay $50 to see Nick Lowe again. And that's it. Nobody else over $30 total.

[Strange and Grandiose]

ElegantMule said:

Okay, so, on a related note,

How much would be too much to pay for a PW show?


At what pricepoint do you start to cringe?


And does it matter if there is a lightshow?

I paid $100 for lousy seats to see the Stones on their last tour. That's about as high as I'd go for anybody, but I'd never seen them before. It was a typical arena show, but I'd have to say it was worth it, just because I needed to see them before they were 80. I think I paid around $50 to see U2 (also for the first time) a couple of years before that. Those seats were even worse (behind the stage, which wasn't such a bad thing when PJ Harvey opened).

Otherwise, I don't think I've ever gone higher than $30.

[bigbak]

$250.00 in a heartbeat. Hell, If he'd take my request and finally play "Freebird", I might pay a bit more.

[Caroline]

Nickel said:

I would pay $50 for Paul. $100 if I could be gauranteed a spot where the three people standing in front of me were shorter than me.

Absolutely! It would be tough to find 3 people shorter than my 5'3" but for $100 it would be worth it.

[A Regular]

Caroline said:

Absolutely! It would be tough to find 3 people shorter than my 5'3" but for $100 it would be worth it.

Off topic but whenever Caroline posts I hum:
Caroline Says...

And I'd still rather pay $100 and see 4 shows! I paid more than that for 2 tickets to Elvis and have a bit of buyer's remorse.

[allshookup]

I recently flew from Los Angeles to New Orleans, got a room, saw Paul, drove to Memphis, got a room, saw Paul, and flew back home for less than two decent seats* at a U2 concert...

* eBay 4/27/2005

[bigbak]

RJ said:

for less than two decent seats* at a U2 concert...

Voice in head #1: Don't do it, it's too easy.

Voice in head #2: C'mon, it's funny, do it, click on that damn post thingy.

Voice in head #1: No, it's crass, and very unoriginal.

Voice in head #2: It is not crass, and it's funny. C'mon, don't be a puss, post it already.

Oh, okay, I'll post it: That's only because the cost of two decent seats to see U2 would have to include the price of the time machine necessary to get back to 1985...

[Brad]

bigbak said:

Me, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. I strongly suspect that the rate of inflation has a bit more to do with the rise in ticket prices than the greed of individual performers or even businessmen (gasp!)

PW and HOF played the Ogden here in Denver. I would guesstimate they pulled in 500 or so fans. $22.00 a ticket. That's $11k. What's the cost of operations for a small act like Paul's? People other than Paul have to be paid, from the tour bus driver on down.

Then there's insurance, lodging, food, equipment maintenance, hospital bills (In PW's case, anyway), props, etc. None of that has gone down in price since 1985.

For the bigger acts, like everybody's fav whipping boy du jour, U2, those costs have to be considerably higher. I know a member of a gold-record band that was on top of the world in 1985, and though the ticket prices for their shows were considered high for the time ($10.00 - $15.00, when minimum wage was $3.35 an hour), he tells me they really didn't earn what everybody assumed - no member of the band was a millionaire then, and if it wasn't for royalties, no one would be today.

The expenses of touring the world have to be enormous - imagine the costs just for the legal department that has to be maintained for a touring rock band. Insurance has to be exorbitant too - not just on individuals in the band, but for the act itself - completion bonds and all that.

Finally, even if these performers are raking it in, hell, they are the ones who dedicated themselves to becoming top performers, they are the ones who honed their craft to the point where they could sell it, they risked all for their art and made it - they reached for the brass ring and have every right to it. To ask them to play as buskers despite their hard work, their commitment, is bullshit.

The best at anything get to charge what the market will bear - that's true freedom for the individual. What man or woman has the right to steal another's labor or achievement?

Yeah, there may of been a lot of luck involved, but they are the ones who put together the music that is palatable enough to the LCD to get airplay, etc., so they are the ones who get to enjoy the rewards.

Well, aren't you quite the bottomline guy.
Of course ticket prices have gone up since 1985.
Of course an artist that works his/her ass off deserves success.
Of course not only the artist gets paid.
In your quest to be devil's advocate you really insult the intelligence of this board (IMO).
In your math for the 11k number did you forget to include t-shirt sales and such? Plus did you bother to do the math for a venue 10 times as big as Ogden at 100 bucks a ticket? Plus merch? I bet bands as big as U2 make as much in merch sale in one night as Westerberg does for a week of shows.
I realize A LOT of people besides the artist get paid. But I guarantee that eveyone on a U2 or a Paul McCartney or a Madonna or a Prince tour is making a damn good living. But when there is that much success and that much money people want more than they need. So, they raise the prices a little more. Then they decide that still isn't enough because the bus driver makes this much and I only make this much. So they raise the prices a little more. And it goes on and on like that until eveyone is making too much f*cking money and fans are paying for it. I don't care how successful and artist is because they are successful because of fans. Period. If you charge insane prices for your concerts isnt' that saying "f*ck you" to the people that got you there? This sense of entitlement you speak of because an artist is successful I think is bullshit. Success breeds greed and if the artist isn't greedy then at least a number people around them or employed by them are and it ends up coming out of the pockets of fans everytime.
You can never justify $100/250 concert tickets to me but you can keep being contradictary if that's what you want.

[kgp]

ElegantMule said:

Okay, so, on a related note,

How much would be too much to pay for a PW show?


At what pricepoint do you start to cringe?


And does it matter if there is a lightshow?

I start to cringe around $25-- for anybody, but I'm poor. (correction: I had this argument with someone a few days ago and had to accept that I'm more cheap than poor.)

Ok, $40 if he plays in my backyard, since I probably spent twice that on gas for the two shows I did see.

[bigbak]

Brad said:

Well, aren't you quite the bottomline guy.


... But when there is that much success and that much money people want more than they need. So, they raise the prices a little more. Then they decide that still isn't enough because the bus driver makes this much and I only make this much. So they raise the prices a little more. And it goes on and on like that until eveyone is making too much f*cking money and fans are paying for it. I don't care how successful and artist is because they are successful because of fans. Period. If you charge insane prices for your concerts isnt' that saying "f*ck you" to the people that got you there? This sense of entitlement you speak of because an artist is successful I think is bullshit. Success breeds greed

Amazing. Do you actually think what I wrote was an insult to anyone on this board's intelligence? Me, I like to believe we ride with a smart bunch, and I like to believe everyone understood my point.

It's a business. The performer is the product.

You're an astute guy, you understand supply and demand, and yet you want price controls on an artistic medium?

What do you do for a living Brad? Are you the best at what you do, or the most popular? Should your earnings be determined by the least you are offered for your services, or by the most you are offered for your services? If your boss offers you a raise because you worked your ass off to prove your worth to the company, are you going to tell him to keep it? Or would it be more morally acceptable if he just didn't offer you a raise, to save you from possible corruption?

Boss to Brad "I know you generate a $1,000,000.00 in revenue a year for the company Brad, but that success stuff is dangerous. I'm cutting your pay back to the level of our junior staff - wouldn't want to be responsible for corrupting your ideals, ya' see."

I guess I should have added a disclaimer or somethin'.

[ElegantMule]

I didn't see the part where Brad called for price controls, but I think his point is that every U2 concert (or whoever) is a cash cow for everyone involved, except the fans.

I don't want to trot out the old Fugazi analogy yet again, but it's true. There is a point somehwere in the process where a promoter or a manager or whoever starts to push the envelope - and then the next mega band manager comes down the pike and says, "Well, U2 charged this much, we should charge X because we want to be in the same league as U2 and people will expect it." And so it goes.

U2 does not need any more money. Seriously.

What is stopping them from cutting back on some lightshow, maybe only having one personal chef on the tour, leaving the cases of Dom off the rider, and charging less for a damned ticket?

I don't blame the bands per se, although a band with integrity would pay attention to what is happening with their little people.

And sure, the price is dependent on what the market will bear, but I think concerts are a special case. They are a scarce commodity, relatively speaking - so it is going to cost some money. BUT it's a case where moreso than usual a band is appealing to a person's hearts or nostalgia or deeply personal sentiments.

People are going to pay more because they have to - or risk missing their favorite thing. I don't think it's right to go in and bend them over a barrel for it.

And I don't even want to go into how the tours end up paying for the recording, because ya just don't need to go hole up on a south american island with Brian Eno for 6 months to make a record.

[MikeR]

Personally, I hope a lot of the over-bloated arena acts keep on charging higher and higher prices. Maybe, at some point, that will encourage more people to go discover all the incredibly talented rock & roll bands who are currently scraping out a living playing in small bars all across the country. U2 isn't a bad band and my intention isn't to trash them, but there are hundreds of bands that I believe to be better in terms of the quality of their music who can be seen in an intimate setting for something like 5% - 10% of their ticket price.

I really believe that - at least for the people who love roots-based rock & roll and are willing to do the necessary research to FIND all these wonderful bands - we're living in an extraordinary time...

[prozach]

"You Expect Professionalism?"





"No, Mr Paul,
i expect you to die..."

[ezimmer]

"It's a business. The performer is the product. "

Indeed it's true. And supply and demand drive the market.

I think the rub for everyone comes because we are talking about art, love, passion, connection, etc. And I think we'd all love for that not to be associated with or driven by money. We don't want to see our hearts come with a price. I'm a songwriter and am always torn and bothered by money.

But it's a reality. Also notice that everyone chafes at Bono and U2 for prices because Bono actually trys to do good and help the poor. Because he is "deeper" in his songs we hold him to a higher standard.

We haven't had 20 posts about Glen Fry and too high ticket prices. We expect it from certain places but when it's a voice or person we have connected with it stings a bit more.

ETZ

[scoOter]

ElegantMule said:

I don't want to trot out the old Fugazi analogy yet again, but it's true.

if you didn't do it, i would have. dirty little secret: fugazi, while not rich, have carved out a nice living for themselves. the drive volvos & everything.

[bigbak]

MikeR said:

I really believe that - at least for the people who love roots-based rock & roll and are willing to do the necessary research to FIND all these wonderful bands - we're living in an extraordinary time...

That's pretty much what I do. PW and HOF was the most I've actually paid for a ticket in over 8 years.

And just to be clear, I in no way support ticket prices that are just about extortionist, but I'm a realist. U2, or whoever's hot at the moment, are almost at a point where they have to charge exorbitant prices just to control the crowd. If you've never been to a sold out show where the fans outside started rioting because they couldn't get in, you are the better for it.

If all the seats in whatever arena U2 is playing were priced at, say $5.00, or even $20.00, there would be huge masses of fans, wanna be fans, and semi-drunk college kids just looking for a good time in disorderly ques that would demand a huge police presence to control. And, as we all know, huge police presences are not good.

If the most expensive seats were priced at, say $75.00, the majority of those would no doubt be purchased by scalpers - even if (already in place) limitations on the quantity of tickets one can purchase are in place. I know a guy who was paid $100.00 by a scalper to stand in line and purchase the best seats available for a Brittany Spears show.

[FreeRider]

scoota-rama-lama-ding-dong said:

if you didn't do it, i would have. dirty little secret: fugazi, while not rich, have carved out a nice living for themselves. the drive volvos & everything.

Fugazi still charge $5 for their shows, I believe. Plus, Ian MacKaye has got his own indie record label so he has another way of making a living besides just the band.

[scoOter]

FreeRider said:

Fugazi still charge $5 for their shows, I believe. Plus, Ian MacKaye has got his own indie record label so he has another way of making a living besides just the band.

right, right... what i am saying, i guess, is that these guys have always, and i'm assuming, will always live with integrity. this is a rare, rare thing. most people buckle eventually. i'm thinking of the clash songs in recent car commercials. the fugazi guys have houses, kids, volvos.... quite inspiring if you ask me.