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Post by BigWheel on Dec 22, 2003 13:46:26 GMT -5
Some of it gets too personal. Some of the performances are pretty poor. Some parts meant to be "touching" come off as real contrived.
Several parts are just great, but it only makes up about 15 percent of the whole film.
It showed me things I did not want to see. I don't think it is a real swell portrayal.
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Post by TomT on Dec 22, 2003 20:00:17 GMT -5
Some of it gets too personal. Some of the performances are pretty poor. Some parts meant to be "touching" come off as real contrived. The part where he burns Katie O'briens picture in the fireplace could be a little pretencious. I thought the performances were great and loved that we got to see a little of Paul's personal side. He's a strange dude but I thought he came off as being very real. He's an artist through and through and more power to him that he makes a living doing exactly what he wants to be doing. Now when do we get to see the entire Bowery show damnit?
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Post by ElegantMule on Dec 22, 2003 20:41:32 GMT -5
Wow, I don't want to add to this, but I just gotta - one of the things that pissed me off at the Madison show was how PW played some of the songs - just sang "la la la" instead of the lyrics, and played the geetar in this really exaggerated way. If he was bored, I dunno. I took it as "you love me, I'm here to get my dough." Which, you know, touring is a drag and all, but che-rist, it's not like he was on a 50 cities in 50 days tour.
I guess a lot of people find this an endearing quality about him. I do not.
I've mentioned this elsewhere on the board and gotten ripped, so rip away.
I haven't picked up the DVD yet, partially because I thought it just might be kind of creepy.
And Elizabeth, if you called him a shithead to his face, I salute you. He apparently needs it sometimes.
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Post by GtrPlyr on Dec 22, 2003 21:09:53 GMT -5
I don't find the DVD creepy, or too personal.
You don't really, get much of a glimpse, into Paul's personal life. You never hear about Paul's wife or family, and his kid is mentioned just briefly, in the closing segments. Other than a brief comment about Paul's dad, there really isn't much personal insight going on.
The movie is basically Paul performing various song fragments, at different venues, interspersed with some home studio foolishness. The few interviews and backstage segments with Paul, don't delve too deep, or get too personal...
Overall, the movie is a good tour log, of a brief period of time in Paul's life, so to call it creepy escapes me. I think he comes off as just a regular guy, who happens to be this fantastic singer/songwriter.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Dec 22, 2003 21:40:52 GMT -5
It's probably the fireplace scene that earns the "creepy" tag. It is a little strange to contrive this personal tribute to a late friend and then set up a video camera to record it. It's the one thing I wish he would have left out of the movie. I'm not sure why he thought he should share that moment with everyone else, particularly in the context of a tour film. I personally wouldn't call it creepy, but it does seem a little questionable.
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Post by fungo on Dec 23, 2003 2:52:17 GMT -5
I don't know a lot about the history of Vagrant, but for an artist like PW that will never get much radio airplay or make the Billboard top 40, I think it's great that he's found a label that gives him freedom and will still promote the hell out of his CD's .
I'm also a big fan of Matt Johnson (the The). He recorded a new album in the mid 90's for Sony. Sony didn't think it was comercial enough so they never released it. When Matt Johnson tried to get the rights to the music so he could take the tapes to another label, Sony said "no." This albums still has yet to be released.
As far as the DVD goes, I was a little disappointed in the sound quality of a lot of the live footage. (I know. It was bootleg stuff.) But I never thought of the DVD as being creepy. I thought the fireplace scene was a nice tribute, and one of my favorite moments. One of the characteristics of most artists is a tendency to be self-indulgent, so I guess those scenes didn't bother me that much.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Dec 23, 2003 18:14:04 GMT -5
That fireplace scene seems a little "creepier" in light of Paul's recent Uncut interview, where he vacilates between referring to the woman in the picture as a "good friend" and then admitting that they "weren't close personally." Who knows what their real relationship was, but there is that weird cloud of artistic exploitation hanging over the whole thing, particularly when you consider how Paul has repeatedly mined his suicide/death obsession in recent years. His whole "I have another girl who died..." vibe actually is somewhat creepy.
He's romanticizing these women (O'Brien, Plath, "Emily" ), which is his artistic right, but he's also taking a fairly self-centered point-of-view as he attempts to personalize their tragedies. In interviews he checks off his list of dead friends and acquaintances as if it all has something to do with him. His infamous quote about Kurt Cobain's suicide ("At least it wasn't someone I knew" ) really shows where his head is at. There reaches a point when his public mourning (particularly when it's as contrived as that fireplace scene) feels more exploitive and narcissistic than sincere. That's when it gets creepy.
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Post by Kathy on Dec 23, 2003 21:35:27 GMT -5
That fireplace scene seems a little "creepier" in light of Paul's recent Uncut interview, where he vacilates between referring to the woman in the picture as a "good friend" and then admitting that they "weren't close personally." Who knows what their real relationship was, but there is that weird cloud of artistic exploitation hanging over the whole thing, particularly when you consider how Paul has repeatedly mined his suicide/death obsession in recent years. His whole "I have another girl who died..." vibe actually is somewhat creepy. He's romanticizing these women (O'Brien, Plath, "Emily" ), which is his artistic right, but he's also taking a fairly self-centered point-of-view as he attempts to personalize their tragedies. . I somewhat agree about the romaticizing of suicide in these songs. But I don't see the bit about personalizing their tragedies at all. The woman he wrote "Lush and Green" about was a a real person that he had a real friendship with and she died and he wrote a song inspired by that. He wrote that song (or released it anyway) 6 years ago and this is the first time he's ever talked in an interview about the person it's about, at least to my knowledge. So I don't see any exploitation or self-pity going on there He was much more public from the get go with "No Place For You" and who that was about and why but I still don't see him personalizing their deaths in these songs - they are about the women and not about him and how he felt about their suicides. It was all about them as opposed to "oh poor me, my friends are all killing themselves". In a couple of interviews, I think he;s been a little more inclined in that direction of "why do so many people I know kill themslves?" but I don't see it in the songs themselves. This is something that's always puzzled me - in songs like The Ledge and the above songs, he has great sympathy and empathy for suicides but in interviews and in on stage mutterings, he has been so disparaging of Kurt Cobain for killing himself. Doesn't make sense to me. k.
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Post by ClamsCasino on Dec 24, 2003 3:28:07 GMT -5
In a couple of interviews, I think he's been a little more inclined in that direction of "why do so many people I know kill themslves?" but I don't see it in the songs themselves. I don't see it in the songs themselves either. I was just reacting to his comments in the press and to the fireplace scene in CFMT. Well, that and the obvious accumulation of suicide/death songs over the past few years. I really hope he gets it out of his system. "...before I rock 'n' roll."
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Post by A Regular on Dec 24, 2003 8:56:00 GMT -5
This is something that's always puzzled me - in songs like The Ledge and the above songs, he has great sympathy and empathy for suicides but in interviews and in on stage mutterings, he has been so disparaging of Kurt Cobain for killing himself. Doesn't make sense to me. k. I don't necessarily see the contradiction. What I hear is an understanding of why someone might end their life voluntarily, but I think it is still fair to be angry or disparaging of someone that does, as the death also impacts the surviviors. Kind of like the last two line of Self Defense.
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Post by Kathy on Dec 24, 2003 10:26:10 GMT -5
I don't necessarily see the contradiction. What I hear is an understanding of why someone might end their life voluntarily, but I think it is still fair to be angry or disparaging of someone that does, as the death also impacts the surviviors. Kind of like the last two line of Self Defense. I'm not saying it's not possible to have both sets of feelings about suicides. The contradiction is in his public statements - be they songs or comments in interviews or onstage - about these various suicides. For all except Cobain, his public statements have been sympathetic/empathetic. You might say he has sympathy for the people who knew more than someone he didn't know, but he didn't know Sylvia Plath. So that's what I don't get. k.
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Post by A Regular on Dec 24, 2003 11:06:40 GMT -5
Heck Kathy, I doubt we'll ever get a clear picture of his thoughts on KC or his life/death. Maybe he just didn't like him or his pathetic waxings? Could it be as simple as that?
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Post by karenripington on Dec 29, 2003 20:43:27 GMT -5
Sorry Big Wheel, I gotta disagree and agree with some of the others about Vagrant. It's widely known that the in-store gigs tour PW did was only in stores heavily weighted by SoundScan to get some momentum behind S/M - as well as the special edition for us nutso fans who had to have the record early. They wanted it on Billboard to get the word out and hopefully sell more copies. Second, I can't verify this but I've heard a lot of Vagrant promo staff were culled from Interscope's payroll, and when I was in radio Interscope was playing some of the dirtiest promo around. If that's the case Vagrant has their well oiled machine very well oiled. (Sorry, I have no hard facts on this - I completely bow that it's rumor.) independent stores cand and do report to soundscan also and an artist can send soundscan sales numbers from "units" sold from the side of the stage or the back of van or the table in the lobby of the club or the counter of an independent record store -- tower and virgin are not the only way to get numbers reported to soundscan and billboard yes, vagrant is indeed very well oiled by interscope -- they are not an "independent "label -- you can not take money from the likes of interscope and be called independent -- trust fund babies, yes -- independent? no no no
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Post by marino on Feb 26, 2004 2:01:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I hope he is dropped from the label, and we never hear anything from him again.
Dislike of Dashboard Confessional would override love of Paul's new music. What a lovely world it would be.
If he starved with a wife and a son, wouldn't that be cool?
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Post by scoOter on Feb 26, 2004 8:30:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I hope he is dropped from the label, and we never hear anything from him again. Dislike of Dashboard Confessional would override love of Paul's new music. What a lovely world it would be. If he starved with a wife and a son, wouldn't that be cool? that's nice, dear.
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Post by liam studebaker on Feb 27, 2004 22:10:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I hope he is dropped from the label, and we never hear anything from him again. Dislike of Dashboard Confessional would override love of Paul's new music. What a lovely world it would be. If he starved with a wife and a son, wouldn't that be cool? Another Army heard from... Two months late. Must be the dial-up connection.
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