drens
Dances With Posts
Posts: 82
|
Post by drens on Sept 26, 2020 14:42:54 GMT -5
|
|
bside
Star Scout
Posts: 356
|
Post by bside on Sept 26, 2020 14:49:15 GMT -5
I think this album is great but somehow it still gets better on relistens.
|
|
|
|
Post by mudbacktodirt on Sept 26, 2020 14:58:51 GMT -5
The bulk of the internet community doesn't seem to like it but I think it's great. Tommy Stinson has said it's the best album they did. It's definitely an album to get you through the tough times (Nobody, All Shook Down, The Last and even the subtle desperation in Someone Take the Wheel, Torture, When It Began - all classics to me even if you'd never hear them on the radio).
I only got it 3-4 years after it came out. So, I was a little late to the aftermath of the swingin party that was All Shook Down. Great album and I'm glad to see some people agree with me.
|
|
Jer
Beagle Scout
Posts: 1,182
|
Post by Jer on Sept 26, 2020 16:55:04 GMT -5
I was initially disappointed. Merry Go Round sounded exactly like a slowed-down Alex Chilton to me - those 3 descending chords at the top. Most of it seemed forcibly restrained, like being uber-mellow just to get away from what they were (he was) known for, out of desperation and boredom. Then the rockers felt forced too - like it was time for that now, so turn up the amps, but the blood wasn't flowing. They'd never missed Bob so much, and the absence of Chris and the inclusion of so many outsiders wasn't helping.
It slowly grew on me - some songs more than others. I grew to love One Wink at a Time,Nobody, My Little Problem, When it Began, Torture, and Bent out of Shape. Never did like Attitude, Happy Town, or Someone Take the Wheel, basically feel the same about I Won't - just felt contrived. The Last is good, the rest are just kinda there. I love the production - the looseness, the sound - it's warm and live sounding, like plug-in-and-play, like the DMP DTAS mix. I'm sure that's what Paul wanted, I just wish the material was better.
Saw them 5 times in 5 different cities that year, a couple were great, a couple were meh, one was downright boring. It was very clearly over, going through the motions (on album and stage) and time to call it a day. I enjoy the record when I hear it now, but I very rarely feel compelled to put it on, especially with "new" old stuff like DMP, For Sale and the new PTMM coming out. It was fun to revisit the remaster when it came out for RSD a couple years back, but I don't think I've put it on since. It's the record they (he) had to make at the time, but it never stood up to anything before it, or even after for the most part, for me.
|
|
bside
Star Scout
Posts: 356
|
Post by bside on Sept 26, 2020 17:04:17 GMT -5
That was sort of a cool discovery for me...as someone who came into the Mats late, I had not only many albums to discover, but also their preconceived narrative (i.e. "Don't Tell a Soul" was lame, "All Shook Down" was a Paul solo album). While I don't discredit those takes, it was also cool to fall in love with albums whose reputation was lackluster or paled in comparison to their counterparts... To the point where I can say I enjoy a song like "My Little Problem" without thinking did Chris play on this? Is that Tommy on bass?? Is this THE REPLACEMENTS?  |
|
|
|
Post by mudbacktodirt on Sept 26, 2020 17:42:54 GMT -5
I look at it as an album that's not at all what it seems on a first or casual listen. It's like Blood on the Tracks except in disguise.
People talk about nervous breakdown albums like Big Star's Third or Tonight's the Night by Neil Young (or Suicaine Gratifaction by Paul). All Shook Down is like that (except not like that on the surface - only after a closer listen).
Sonically, it sounds like it fits in chronologically between Don't Tell a Soul and 14 Songs (production-wise more like 14 Songs). But when you really listen to the lyrics and then listen again to the vocal performances along with those lyrics more closely, what the album is really about comes through.
It's the story of bitter a marriage falling apart (you're still in love with nobody and I used to be nobody) . . . a band breaking up (willing to bet we don't last a year) . . . not reaching the 'big time' like you thought you would (the plan was to sweep the world off it's feet, so you sweep the garage for the neighbors to see) . . . life totally falling apart (shook my hand as I drowned).
All things that could apply to anyone at some point in their lives (although hopefully not all at once). But, the album doesn't sound that way at all without listening closely to the lyrics and then doing so again while hearing the emotion in the strained vocals. It's all alongside a not-overly-dramatic background on the instrumental side of things (with the possible exception of All Shook Down and The Last which do go hand-in-hand musically with the lyrical content).
What's great about it isn't readily noticeable or at all in line with what's great about Paul's other strong material. I think it's great although I can see why others don't.
It's almost like a 'you had to be there' thing where you try to explain why something was funny to someone but just can't do it justice. You had to be feeling a certain way or be in a certain place in your life at the time this album was new to you to see why it would hit the spot and to get the emotional impact of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by anarkissed on Sept 26, 2020 18:42:42 GMT -5
When this album came out, it just made me depressed: "Wow...They're going to break up now"...I wondered whether Paul would even keep working.
|
|
|
|
Post by holeinthedrapes on Sept 26, 2020 19:15:38 GMT -5
I love the album. I became a Replacements fans after becoming a Westerberg fan based on 14 Songs. This was probably the first Replacements album I bought and it sounded similar to 14 Songs, which I loved. I guess hearing it in my own time prevented me from having any thoughts on what it should or shouldn’t sound like. It just sounded good to me.
On a related note to finding the Replacements after Westerberg, I was in the audience for Bash and Pop’s appearance on Late Night with Letterman. I absolutely loved their song and it wasn’t until years later that I put together the connection to Westerberg and the Replacements.
|
|
|
|
Post by con on Sept 26, 2020 22:30:57 GMT -5
Hear hear! Thx for sharing that drens! |
|
|
|
Post by con on Sept 26, 2020 22:36:51 GMT -5
First half of ASD is, to me, “God-tier,” as the kids say these days. Second half I really struggle with. “Sadly Beautiful” is one of Paul’s best. The demo on the expanded reissue is a real treat.
|
|
|
|
Post by FreeRider on Sept 27, 2020 9:33:40 GMT -5
Hey all, been awhile since I've posted. Just wanted to chime in that I was a little disappointed when it first came out, it seemed restrained. They had some tunes where I thought they'd open it up and cut loose but it never did so it was a different album and Paul was dialing back.
or they were just tired, unhappy, and worn down. But like with other listeners, over time, it grew on me and I appreciated some of the songs more. Loved the back story with Johnette and My Little Problem. But The Last---holy shit. That song just killed me and took me all the way down the black hole when I was mourning.
Talk about a song for catharsis! I dunno if it enhanced and made me feel worse in my grief or better because I could purge myself of all this sadness. Probably both. Now, I can listen to it and not focus on my own experience, but think about it from Paul's feelings at the time---be it about the break up of the band, a relationship, about coming to grips with alcoholism, and loss, and a plea for help.
The biggest impact were these lines :
You've been swearing to God
but maybe if you asked....
And I felt, "wow, maybe I should stop with the 'goddamn this' or the 'goddamn that', and talk to the Cosmic Engineer and say, 'Hey, I'm lost here, I need some help.' " And I'm not really a religious person in the conventional sense either (but I am a believer in something though)!
|
|
|
|
Post by con on Sept 27, 2020 12:44:00 GMT -5
The biggest impact were these lines : You've been swearing to God
but maybe if you asked....And I felt, "wow, maybe I should stop with the 'goddamn this' or the 'goddamn that', and talk to the Cosmic Engineer and say, 'Hey, I'm lost here, I need some help.' " And I'm not really a religious person in the conventional sense either (but I am a believer in something though)! Welcome back, FreeRider. Excellent, heartfelt post. I love reading these kinds of anecdotes. I apologize if this isn’t the right venue for going deeper, but did you ever end up asking the man upstairs for a hand? I did when I realized not rock n roll (the ‘Mats included), nor my work, politics, hobbies, not even my family could “fill the void” or explain “what it’s all about.” I was self-destructive and defeated, and I started trying on gods like hats. Ol’ JC found me, gave me a new life, a new suit of armor, an attitude of gratitude. It really is like being “born again.” You say you’re a “believer in something”—well, forgive me for being so bold, but why not give that something a face and become a believer in Christ? You won’t be disappointed. It’s easy. Just send a self-addressed stamped env... ha! Kidding. No, all he asks is that you surrender—have faith (give up on your pride, your ego, the illusions of this world) and “live by love.” The Christian accepts defeat in this life so he/she might enjoy triumph in the next. Most modern people can’t conceive of such impractical foolishness—“are ya too proud to ask?”—but when has the truth ever been en vogue? I think the ‘Mats were kinda Christian-like in how they rejected the glories of renown, despised the self-promotion game, catered to their meekest fans and seemed to embrace defeat. I’d be curious if Paul’s Catholic upbringing had anything to do with that and whether or not he ever returned to it. Ok, I’m done proselytizing! |
|
|
|
Post by holeinthedrapes on Sept 27, 2020 19:35:48 GMT -5
The biggest impact were these lines : You've been swearing to God
but maybe if you asked....And I felt, "wow, maybe I should stop with the 'goddamn this' or the 'goddamn that', and talk to the Cosmic Engineer and say, 'Hey, I'm lost here, I need some help.' " And I'm not really a religious person in the conventional sense either (but I am a believer in something though)! Welcome back, FreeRider. Excellent, heartfelt post. I love reading these kinds of anecdotes. I apologize if this isn’t the right venue for going deeper, but did you ever end up asking the man upstairs for a hand? I did when I realized not rock n roll (the ‘Mats included), nor my work, politics, hobbies, not even my family could “fill the void” or explain “what it’s all about.” I was self-destructive and defeated, and I started trying on gods like hats. Ol’ JC found me, gave me a new life, a new suit of armor, an attitude of gratitude. It really is like being “born again.” You say you’re a “believer in something”—well, forgive me for being so bold, but why not give that something a face and become a believer in Christ? You won’t be disappointed. It’s easy. Just send a self-addressed stamped env... ha! Kidding. No, all he asks is that you surrender—have faith (give up on your pride, your ego, the illusions of this world) and “live by love.” The Christian accepts defeat in this life so he/she might enjoy triumph in the next. Most modern people can’t conceive of such impractical foolishness—“are ya too proud to ask?”—but when has the truth ever been en vogue? I think the ‘Mats were kinda Christian-like in how they rejected the glories of renown, despised the self-promotion game, catered to their meekest fans and seemed to embrace defeat. I’d be curious if Paul’s Catholic upbringing had anything to do with that and whether or not he ever returned to it. Ok, I’m done proselytizing! Funny thing is when I read Trouble Boys the thought, “Now these seem like some nice born again Christian boys!” never occurred to me. |
|
|
|
Post by con on Sept 27, 2020 20:46:37 GMT -5
Welcome back, FreeRider. Excellent, heartfelt post. I love reading these kinds of anecdotes. I apologize if this isn’t the right venue for going deeper, but did you ever end up asking the man upstairs for a hand? I did when I realized not rock n roll (the ‘Mats included), nor my work, politics, hobbies, not even my family could “fill the void” or explain “what it’s all about.” I was self-destructive and defeated, and I started trying on gods like hats. Ol’ JC found me, gave me a new life, a new suit of armor, an attitude of gratitude. It really is like being “born again.” You say you’re a “believer in something”—well, forgive me for being so bold, but why not give that something a face and become a believer in Christ? You won’t be disappointed. It’s easy. Just send a self-addressed stamped env... ha! Kidding. No, all he asks is that you surrender—have faith (give up on your pride, your ego, the illusions of this world) and “live by love.” The Christian accepts defeat in this life so he/she might enjoy triumph in the next. Most modern people can’t conceive of such impractical foolishness—“are ya too proud to ask?”—but when has the truth ever been en vogue? I think the ‘Mats were kinda Christian-like in how they rejected the glories of renown, despised the self-promotion game, catered to their meekest fans and seemed to embrace defeat. I’d be curious if Paul’s Catholic upbringing had anything to do with that and whether or not he ever returned to it. Ok, I’m done proselytizing! Funny thing is when I read Trouble Boys the thought, “Now these seem like some nice born again Christian boys!” never occurred to me. Lol same. I just mean their general stance of self-negation has whiffs of the Christian view of life. They were probably entirely unaware of that, just like most people in the West are unaware that the institutions and cultural values they hold dear are a result of being steeped in Christianity for centuries (despite it being reviled now). |
|
|
|
Post by FreeRider on Sept 30, 2020 9:28:52 GMT -5
Well, not to get too personal or confessional, but I was mourning the loss of a friend that I had loved briefly. And then she was gone. So the grieving process makes you think, "why?". Makes you angry, makes you sad. So that is why the lines of "swearing to God..." really had an impact. Because the lyrics were speaking to my feeling and experience at the time.
Appreciate your helpful suggestions, con, and I know that discussing politics and religion is probably not wise, so this will be brief and my last word on the subject. I said I wasn't religious in the conventional sense. What I believe in is probably not the same interpretation of what you believe in and what has helped you but it comes from the same place; we all have different experiences that shapes our understanding of the world and the cosmos in arriving at some sort of answer that we can understand. As Lennon sang, "whatever gets you through the night".
Regardless, these lyrics in The Last are genius; Paul was able to say so much in those two lines and achieving a high bar along with the preceding lines:
would it hurt to fall in love a little slower?
I know it hurts at any speed
so you have another drink
and get down on your knees...
he couches what "the last" really is until he gets to that stanza, but he also throws in relationships, love that fails around the alcohol problem. It's a helluva song.
|
|
|
|
Post by raccoon on Sept 30, 2020 16:36:34 GMT -5
Such a solid album. The best one to 'convert' non-believers with IMO.
Always loved the front and back artwork. Anybody remember those old signs? They were usually posted on liquor store windows:
Missing: Small dog, blind, deaf in one ear, missing one testicle and one leg. Answers to the name "LUCKY".
|
|
|
|
Post by thematsarealive on Sept 30, 2020 21:05:58 GMT -5
I have always loved this one... now it's time to whore my past (kidding)
I joined the party late as someone who was too young to listen when this was first released. I am pretty sure this was the first Mats album I actually bought in the bargain bin of a used CD store while I was borrowing my friend's copy of Let It Be and listening to Tim at his house at the same time.
It's a really great album and I have always enjoyed the deep lyrical content and songs. I would definitely prefer any new music from Paul or Tommy over a re-release of this or any other album however. They are incredibly talented songwriters and musicians.
|
|
nazareth
Star Scout
All men are Liars.......
Posts: 537
|
Post by nazareth on Oct 1, 2020 16:53:43 GMT -5
After hearing Sorry Ma and Let it Be at 16 years old I checked this one out a couple years later. It definitely didn't stick with me at first. It's still a sad album to me. Paul's vocals are almost whispered and the band was obviously a shell of its former self, but it's great nonetheless. Kind of a transition piece between the 'Mats proper and their solo careers. Didn't fully appreciate it until i got older.
|
|
