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Post by leftofthedial09 on Oct 15, 2019 20:37:36 GMT -5
I always loved DTAS. The songs were epic and cinematic. Really strong songs (With the exception of I Wont and Asking Me Lies which I still didn't hate). The production is 80's, but never bothered me too much.
I love the new redux. More than I enjoy hearing the stripped back production, I love hearing the additional instruments like band in Talent Show, or extended -fake-out ending on I Wont.
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Post by firespirit on Oct 16, 2019 1:09:44 GMT -5
Frankly I bought the box set mostly for the live show. DTAS was always my least favorite Mats record. But wow, I'm impressed. I think Redux just moved passed ASD for me.....The one area where I disagree with every one else though is the track order. I think I prefer the 1989 track order. I like the way the original ended with Darling One. It was nice to see Ought to Get Love make an appearance, I always thought that was an ASD outtake....
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Post by thematsarealive on Oct 21, 2019 22:27:11 GMT -5
I love this remix but maybe PW would be more motivated to release new music or play live if he could not easily and readily line his pockets based on the recent yearly reissues. I am sure he and Tommy both totally cleaned up on the 2012-2015 Mats reunion shows anyway ($1 million+ each) so maybe it is a mute point. I thought the Mats were totally uncommercially successful according to folk lore
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markc
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Post by markc on Oct 22, 2019 2:14:02 GMT -5
I love this remix but maybe PW would be more motivated to release new music or play live if he could not easily and readily line his pockets based on the recent yearly reissues. I am sure he and Tommy both totally cleaned up on the 2012-2015 Mats reunion shows anyway ($1 million+ each) so maybe it is a mute point. I thought the Mats were totally uncommercially successful according to folk lore God forbid they (finally) get their well-deserved due for the fabulous music and memories they've given us. If Paul is done, fine, what a career. I don't think he's done, and he'll let us know when he's ready.
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Oct 22, 2019 6:05:45 GMT -5
Unpopular opinion: This remix is great and likely better than what was released in '89 but this album sounds a little dry and not much different than DTAS other than removing the reverb and making the guitars more clear.
Sure but that's all that was really needed to fix it - the great record was there, the songs, the performances, it was just buried. They didn't have to fix much, just strip away the goop and tweak a couple things.
I love this album but I also thought Don't Tell a Soul was a fabulous album. Removing a bit of reverb with a cash grab bonus disc included is good and all but it would not move my overall opinion of the record or anything
You're entitled to that opinion, and I don't personally get much value out of disc 2 myself, but I'd argue that this wasn't all that much of a cash grab. I think they reached their target audience which are the hardcore fans, and there aren't all that many of them. I've heard a little backlash in the last couple weeks now that it's been out for a while, but I think you're in the minority and most fans think it's a great package and the Wallace mix sort of saves the record's legacy. And don't forget about the 2x live CD, which probably would have done ok as a separate release if they really wanted to capitalize on it. There are a couple things I wish they'd done differently but overall I think it's a really good addition to the Replacements catalog.
Still, you're not alone. I have a couple friends who prefer the original. I think they're crazy, I think the only advantage the original has is nostalgia, but one person's art isn't necessarily that of another person, and we're lucky that we have both.
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Oct 22, 2019 6:37:50 GMT -5
I love this remix but maybe PW would be more motivated to release new music or play live if he could not easily and readily line his pockets based on the recent yearly reissues. I am sure he and Tommy both totally cleaned up on the 2012-2015 Mats reunion shows anyway ($1 million+ each) so maybe it is a mute point. I thought the Mats were totally uncommercially successful according to folk lore
Trying to motivate Paul to release new music by denying him the income generated by his back catalog is ridiculous. I don't think he jumps into any of these things frivolously, and I know for a fact that he personally holds up and even sometimes shelves these projects to the dismay of the labels when he doesn't want them out there.
I don't get how DMP is perceived as a money grab. It's way too niche, and too expensive - there is no big market for it, it's a release for the fans. I'm sure they won't lose money on it, but it's not a huge payday. I'll admit I rolled my eyes at that last set of remasters too, but I don't think that whatever cash that came out of those is keeping him in the basement.
Not sure where that $1m each figure comes from. Seems high to me, but I suppose it's possible. They didn't do that many shows, and other than the festivals, they were all theaters. Regardless, doing that tour was the exception to his m.o. of not going after the money grab - and he was clearly really conflicted about the whorish aspect of it. It may have cemented his feelings about going after the cash like that.
I don't think The Replacements made much money when they were active either. They never had a gold record and they never played anything bigger than a theater or the rare festival as a headliner. Paul gets royalties from his songs, which probably helps to sustain a modest lifestyle, and to a lesser extent Tommy, who was a co-writer on a few things. They did better than a lot of bands, but they weren't really successful commercially from a music business perspective. I think it's basic math, not folk lore.
Tommy is playing house shows to 20 people and Paul's not playing anywhere. They could make a lot of money playing as The Replacements, doing something similar to what the Descendents are doing - 3-day runs every month or two, selling out theaters all over the world, the occasional festival, hitting markets every 4 years or so to keep demand up, charging a hefty ticket price, making a lot of people happy and getting out there - but without the grind of a long tour. But there's not that much money in The Replacements these days as things are. My guess is that we'll hear something new from Paul at some point, but I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if it's anything commercially viable. He is unpredictable.
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who?
Star Scout
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Post by who? on Oct 22, 2019 7:55:40 GMT -5
I want to know if the LP has "Portland" etched in the inner vinyl. It does...and it says "Portland, we're still sorry".
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Post by curmudgeonman on Oct 22, 2019 15:47:50 GMT -5
Not sure where that $1m each figure comes from. Seems high to me, but I suppose it's possible. They didn't do that many shows, and other than the festivals, they were all theaters. Regardless, doing that tour was the exception to his m.o. of not going after the money grab - and he was clearly really conflicted about the whorish aspect of it. It may have cemented his feelings about going after the cash like that.
I don't think The Replacements made much money when they were active either. They never had a gold record and they never played anything bigger than a theater or the rare festival as a headliner. Paul gets royalties from his songs, which probably helps to sustain a modest lifestyle, and to a lesser extent Tommy, who was a co-writer on a few things. They did better than a lot of bands, but they weren't really successful commercially from a music business perspective. I think it's basic math, not folk lore. I don't think a million bucks is a plausible figure. Yes, only a few dozen shows, including the festivals. Coachella paid approx. $ 75-150k for tier II acts like The Mats. And the band was not selling tickets at the other shows for huge amounts of cash, maybe approx. $50 from what I remember, not Streisand, Eagles or Stones money. Deduct 20% for management, another 10% for lawyers and business managers, and lots of money for buses, hotels, road crew salaries, per diems, insurance, equipment costs, etc. Ouch. As far as sales of Mats albums, I doubt that Westy is making any real money at all, since according to him, they still owe Warner Bros. for back advances unpaid. Since Rhino is part of Warners and they released Dead Mans Pop, I can understand why he might've not had an interest in the release, since money would likely be handed back to Warners anyways. John Lydon's Public Image faced the same predicament; sales did not pay for the advances he received, and ended up repaying Virgin Records out of his own pocket from TV commercial earnings to settle the debt so he could put out new PiL albums. If anyone is going to make money on DMP, it is Warners., Matt Wallace and perhaps Bob Mehr.
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Oct 22, 2019 18:21:33 GMT -5
Not sure where that $1m each figure comes from. Seems high to me, but I suppose it's possible. They didn't do that many shows, and other than the festivals, they were all theaters. Regardless, doing that tour was the exception to his m.o. of not going after the money grab - and he was clearly really conflicted about the whorish aspect of it. It may have cemented his feelings about going after the cash like that.
I don't think The Replacements made much money when they were active either. They never had a gold record and they never played anything bigger than a theater or the rare festival as a headliner. Paul gets royalties from his songs, which probably helps to sustain a modest lifestyle, and to a lesser extent Tommy, who was a co-writer on a few things. They did better than a lot of bands, but they weren't really successful commercially from a music business perspective. I think it's basic math, not folk lore. I don't think a million bucks is a plausible figure. Yes, only a few dozen shows, including the festivals. Coachella paid approx. $ 75-150k for tier II acts like The Mats. And the band was not selling tickets at the other shows for huge amounts of cash, maybe approx. $50 from what I remember, not Streisand, Eagles or Stones money. Deduct 20% for management, another 10% for lawyers and business managers, and lots of money for buses, hotels, road crew salaries, per diems, insurance, equipment costs, etc. Ouch. As far as sales of Mats albums, I doubt that Westy is making any real money at all, since according to him, they still owe Warner Bros. for back advances unpaid. Since Rhino is part of Warners and they released Dead Mans Pop, I can understand why he might've not had an interest in the release, since money would likely be handed back to Warners anyways. John Lydon's Public Image faced the same predicament; sales did not pay for the advances he received, and ended up repaying Virgin Records out of his own pocket from TV commercial earnings to settle the debt so he could put out new PiL albums. If anyone is going to make money on DMP, it is Warners., Matt Wallace and perhaps Bob Mehr.
I think they made some money off DMP, the live album, and the reissues. If they owe money to Warner still, then maybe not a share of sales, but an up-front fee of some sort. I know that they get approval on any releases, and if they weren't getting paid they wouldn't agree to the release, so there almost had to be some money there. But yeah, either way, there aren't going to be that many sold that anyone's getting rich.
For those tours, you have to think that Coachella and those first Riot Fest shows would have been the biggest paydays. The math just isn't there I think, I agree.
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markc
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Post by markc on Oct 23, 2019 3:15:19 GMT -5
They could retire on just the merch sales from the Midway show alone, lol. That was a payday!
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Post by Veets on Oct 23, 2019 18:00:00 GMT -5
The new mix is giving me a new appreciation for Darlin' One. Made me think about Paul's Love on the Wing. Did he write any other bird songs?
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Post by brianlux on Nov 2, 2019 15:19:11 GMT -5
After some deliberation, I finally broke down and shelled out the big bucks for the box set. A friend asked what I thought of it. Here's what I wrote back:
Oh man- it's great! I've always thought Don't Tell a Soul is a great album despite it's 80's glossy production. In fact, a lot of die-hard 'Mats fans have really slammed that album because of the overly polished production quality. I can't say that I disagree about some of the production issues, but I've always seen most of the songs as being really fine work and could hear the beauty of them beneath the sheen.
So that takes us to this re-issue with it's new title, Dead Man's Pop, and Matt Wallace's excellent remix. Wallace was the original producer and this is the album he would have helped the band release had it not been for big label execs who wanted something more "contemporary". When I sat down and listed to the vinyl version, it was like seeing a great painting that had been covered for years with opaque plastic, revealing the stark beauty beneath. I was literally in tears while listening to some of the songs.
There are a few songs here that still don't do much for me- "I Won't" and "Asking Me Lies" and a few that I like in both productions, but the best material here comes through marvelously. I haven't had time to listen to any of the four CD's yet, but they will at the very least be interesting, no doubt, and the first CD is the same of the LP so I'll have a copy to drive to.
I was hesitant because of the price- and it is pricey- but hearing this gem the way it was meant to be heard makes every penny worth it for me!
I hope you get a chance to at least here this on, and maybe even own it some day!
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gah
First Class Scout
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Post by gah on Nov 7, 2019 23:36:23 GMT -5
I always liked DTAS. Its my 3rd favourite album (blasphemy, I know.) But now it now really feels like a Mats record.
The 2 skip-able songs before are now fun & listenable (I Won't) and essential listening (They're Blind.)
And everything else sounds better, too. Except maybe Asking Me Lies, which I have always really liked. Something about the 80s goop really worked for it. It's still likable now though.
This is a really beautiful job done here with the Redux.
The 1989 version is now a dust collector. (Well, maybe I'll take it out for Asking Me Lies.)
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Post by Veets on Nov 20, 2019 0:43:24 GMT -5
After listening to DMP a lot lately, I've come to the conclusion that Matt Wallace should remix every Replacements album possible. And maybe Paul's solo stuff too. To me (with no technical background of the tools or process) it's simply amazing what he has done to bring all of the elements of these songs together. I'd love to see what he could do with other tracks.
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Post by crussell on Dec 12, 2019 11:16:17 GMT -5
Want to order "Dead Man's Pop", but since I don't have a CD player: are digital downloads of the 4 CDs part of the package?
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funker
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Post by funker on Dec 12, 2019 16:08:55 GMT -5
Yes, I've seen Amazon has the download of the Dead Man's Pop set available, and I'm guessing the others, itunes etc do as well. I'm also in the boat of having picked up my set from an indie store and got no download from Rhino for the cassette exclusive tracks. If someone has those, could you please send me a PM? Thanks!
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Post by crussell on Dec 12, 2019 17:02:39 GMT -5
Just to be clear funker, you're saying if I purchase "Dead Man's Pop" it includes digital downloads for CD material. Don't wanna pay $50+ for vinyl alone. Thanks...
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funker
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Post by funker on Dec 12, 2019 17:36:40 GMT -5
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Post by crussell on Dec 13, 2019 19:53:53 GMT -5
thank you funker. X-mas just got better...
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Post by ClamsCasino on Dec 14, 2019 15:19:58 GMT -5
Everything except the cassette songs just showed up on Amazon Music Unlimited too.
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