The 'Mats vs. The Jam

[nazareth]

The recent discussion of Paul saying he can't really relate to the Jam anymore reminded me of some big similarities between the two that I'd been meaning to make a thread on for a very long time. The Jam and the 'Mats are my two favorite bands ever so some of this may be a stretch, but I think there are some definite career similarities.

Let's start off with some facts:

• Both band's frontmen are Paul W.
  
• One of Weller's biggest influences was The Small Faces, Westerberg's was The Faces
  
• Both men have had critically acclaimed solo careers
  
• Both bands have a 'holy trinity' of records
  
• Both bands debuts are considered Punk classics though both bands evolved away from punk
  
• Both bands final record were seen as basically solo albums by their frontmen
  
• Both bands bass players went on to play in already established "classic" bands (Stiff Little Fingers / Guns N Roses)
  
• Both bands had very little success in the US depite being somewhat legendary today
  
• Weller and Westerberg each only cracked the Billboard Hot 100 once ("My Ever Changing Moods" / "I'll Be You").
  

Let's compare the albums...

Sorry Ma vs. In the City

Both albums are considered punk classics. Both albums took influence from 50's and 60's rock and soul and basically made it louder and faster.

Stink vs. This is the Modern World

These albums were (and to some still are) considered the worst albums of both band's careers. Both were seen as re-writes of their debuts, despite the fact there were shades of the genius that was to come ('Go' for Stink, and "I need you" for Modern World).

I'm going to skip Hootenany just to make this work.

Let it Be vs. All Mod Cons



Starting with the album covers, both bands (for the first and last time) put plain photographs of the full band on the cover. These albums are when the critics began to take notice. 1st album of each band's Holy Trinity. Both albums have 1 cover song (Black diamond, David Watts).


Tim vs. Setting Sons



This time both album covers are dark and dreary. The 2nd album of each band's holy trinity both were criticized for their production. Setting Sons for being overproduced, Tim for being produced...poorly.


Pleased to Meet Me vs. Sound Affects



Again the album covers... this time both covers are bright and (to me at least) seem to symbolize the sleezyness of pop culture and all that goes along with it (IOU nothin' / "Pocket full of pretty green"). Both albums (arguably) have the most recognizable song by each band ("Can't Hardly Wait" / "That's Entertainment"). Both albums are the last in each band's Holy Trinity, and are often seen as just slightly inferior to the two before them.

Again, I'll leave out DTAS to make this work.


All Shook Down vs. The Gift

Both albums are considered basically solo albums by each band's frontmen. Both showed signs of things to come (Westerberg's more commercial mellow pop and Weller's soft soul leanings). Both albums sound (for obvious reasons) like Break-Up records.


Some obvious stretches, but who doesn't try to find links between their two favorite bands?

[wecantgetanybetter]

Nice work. I was late to the Jam and only have a best-of import double LP with incomprehensible liner notes (they're in British). It's called Snap! which is a bit like Boink!

[redredwine]

Great thread. I was just thinking if there was any way to link the Mats and the Jam - sort of a 6 degrees of separation. You Have covered similarities perfectly, but are there any direct links (common cover songs, both bands music used in a soundtrack, etc.)?

I can't think of any connection at all, but I'm sure someone on the board will.

[nazareth]

Jun 9, 2010 23:44:29 GMT -5 redredwine said:

Great thread. I was just thinking if there was any way to link the Mats and the Jam - sort of a 6 degrees of separation. You Have covered similarities perfectly, but are there any direct links (common cover songs, both bands music used in a soundtrack, etc.)?

I can't think of any connection at all, but I'm sure someone on the board will.

I tried The 'Mats and the Jam on bandtoband.com (check it out if you haven't...cool site) and it looks like 7 degrees of separation. Interesting that to get from the 'Mats to Weller you have to go through another Paul (McCartney).


1. The Replacements
|
Tommy Stinson
|
2. Guns N Roses
|
Brian Carrol : "Buckethead"
|
3. Colonel Claypool's Bucket Of Bernie Brains
|
Bernie Worrell
|
4. Material
|
Peter Baker : "Ginger Baker"
|
5. Ginger Baker's Air Force
|
Brian Hines : "Denny Laine"
|
6. Wings
|
Paul McCartney
|
7. The Smokin' Mojo Filters
|
Paul Weller

[Jer]

I was late to the Jam and only have a best-of import double LP with incomprehensible liner notes (they're in British). It's called Snap!

Snap! is a great compilation. If anyone is looking for a good place to start that's it. Their records are all great, but Snap! provides insight into every record, and it is the only place you can get the demo version of That's Entertainment, which most people and Weller himself feel is superior to the Sound Affects version.

are there any direct links (common cover songs, both bands music used in a soundtrack, etc.)?

I've been laboring over this question since I first saw this new thread... the only thing I've been able to come up with is Slow Down, which both bands covered.

All Shook Down vs. The Gift

Both albums are considered basically solo albums by each band's frontmen. Both showed signs of things to come (Westerberg's more commercial mellow pop and Weller's soft soul leanings). Both albums sound (for obvious reasons) like Break-Up records.

I would argue that The Gift is a better, more consistent record than All Shook Down. Like the Mats they had lost most of their punk edge by the time they got to their last record, but it is a solid, consistent release.

The Jam were so great. Weller took a lot of knocks for his singing, especially in the early years, with his heavy accent and limited range, but that made them more endearing to me. They straddled that line - like the Mats - of unbridled energy and brilliant lyrics that few bands have actually pulled off. They didn't really have the goofy/drunk/unpredictable side to them, they were all business.

The Complete Jam DVD is great, and the live Trans Global Unity Express live VHS is killer too. Wish this would get released on DVD.

I could go on forever about The Jam and The Clash.

[nazareth]

Jun 10, 2010 5:58:46 GMT -5 Jer said:

I was late to the Jam and only have a best-of import double LP with incomprehensible liner notes (they're in British). It's called Snap!

Snap! is a great compilation. If anyone is looking for a good place to start that's it. Their records are all great, but Snap! provides insight into every record, and it is the only place you can get the demo version of That's Entertainment, which most people and Weller himself feel is superior to the Sound Affects version.



I've been laboring over this question since I first saw this new thread... the only thing I've been able to come up with is Slow Down, which both bands covered.

All Shook Down vs. The Gift

Both albums are considered basically solo albums by each band's frontmen. Both showed signs of things to come (Westerberg's more commercial mellow pop and Weller's soft soul leanings). Both albums sound (for obvious reasons) like Break-Up records.

I would argue that The Gift is a better, more consistent record than All Shook Down. Like the Mats they had lost most of their punk edge by the time they got to their last record, but it is a solid, consistent release.

The Jam were so great. Weller took a lot of knocks for his singing, especially in the early years, with his heavy accent and limited range, but that made them more endearing to me. They straddled that line - like the Mats - of unbridled energy and brilliant lyrics that few bands have actually pulled off. They didn't really have the goofy/drunk/unpredictable side to them, they were all business.

The Complete Jam DVD is great, and the live Trans Global Unity Express live VHS is killer too. Wish this would get released on DVD.

I could go on forever about The Jam and The Clash.

I actually agree about All Shook Down. It's always been my least favorite 'Mats record (though i still love it). It sounds so tired and burned out (highlighted by Paul basically whispering the vocals to the entire album). The ballads are great, but something like "My Little Problem" sounds so forced and has no balls to it.

The Gift is Weller putting a nail in the Jam's coffin. It's a great album and I love that musically it's all over the place.

The difference is that Weller is ending the Jam on his own accord while Westy seemed to be doing it out of neccessity.

[scoOter]

long live the jam! everyone should get their boxset that came out some time ago. it covers everything & then some.

[Jer]

I got it in 5.

1. Mats
- Tommy -
2. GNR
- Slash -
3. Michael Jackson (Give In To Me)
- McCartney (say say say) -
4. The Smokin' Mojo Filters
- Paul Weller -
5. The Jam

[bigbak]

The Jam and the 'mats have always had a commonality to me, in that the music both bands produced rocked my damn socks off, thus making my adolescence, teen years, and early to mid twenties bearable.

And my mature (hah!) years too.

[daddybrave]

I recently started a firestorm on my facebook page when I posted that after twenty years of listening to The Jam I realized that my deepest response to them is akin to what happens when you scrape fingernails down a blackboard.

Paul Weller solo I like. The Jam? (Shuddering).

[scoOter]

Jun 16, 2010 12:05:37 GMT -5 daddybrave said:

I recently started a firestorm on my facebook page when I posted that after twenty years of listening to The Jam I realized that my deepest response to them is akin to what happens when you scrape fingernails down a blackboard.

Paul Weller solo I like. The Jam? (Shuddering).

DUCK & COVER!

[Jer]

Paul Weller solo I like. The Jam? (Shuddering).

Ha! The Jam I like. Paul Weller solo? (Shuddering).

I tired really hard to like his solo stuff. Even dragged a group of friends out to see him about a decade ago. He played for nearly 2 hours - not a single Jam tune. Best song of the night by far was his cover of Ohio by Neil Young. Then I heard he came back a couple years later and pulled out several Jam covers. Bastard.

Anyhow...that's what makes the world go around I guess. The Jam were never universally liked, and in America they never really broke big. He's done really well for himself since The Jam and The Style Council. Seems like one of those things where some people latch on and love it and other's just don't see the attraction. I have friends that still don't get Tom Waits and probably never will. Then they play me Radiohead and I wanna puke.