Why "If I Had a Hammer"?

[landshark]

You think our man is decrying Greed W. Bush and the right-wing righteous?

Or did Johnny just come home from school one day with this tune, inspiring the old man?

[angela]

landshark said:

You think our man is decrying Greed W. Bush and the right-wing righteous?

Boy, I sure hope so because the rock world really needs another self-important prick like Springsteen to keep us informed about politics and the state of the country.

[angela]

Okay, so that was really rude, sorry. I just have a preference for my rock stars to stay out of politics. Not saying they can't say what they want, it just bores me to the point of tears.

[pline]

I kind of just thought he went with it because it was a good folk song and fit into the Folker tour.

[Smorgasberg]

angela said:

Okay, so that was really rude, sorry. I just have a preference for my rock stars to stay out of politics. Not saying they can't say what they want, it just bores me to the point of tears.

There was a debate on this here a while back. Paul seems to be completely determined to avoid overt political commentary, so you probably need not worry there. I figure he just digs that song. It's pretty cool how has let us in on what some of his own musical tastes are by throwing in these covers on the tour.

Semi-related comment: I went to the rock and roll hall of fame in Cleveland last weekend (overrated experience, but that's a whole other thread). I saw a picture of Woody Guthrie with his guitar with the words "This Machine Kills Fascists" printed on the body. With someone like Woody Guthrie, his messages, certainly political, were very nearly the whole point, and people either agreed with him or disagreed with him. I don't think people said, "You're an entertainer. Stay out of this." Frankly, I think only musicians whose work is devoid of all meaningful content can claim to have no political viewpoint. And what fun are they?

For example, is the song "Pine Box" devoid of any political message? I don't think so, whether Paul would want to own up to it or not. I always want everybody to speak up about things they care about. If I agree with them, great. If I don't, at least I know where they're coming from, and can make a choice about whether to support them. If they are a tedious bore, that carries its own punishment.

I'm not jumping on anybody, here. It's just something I've been thinking about ever since I saw the picture of Woody, and it seemed relevant.

[angela]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, Smorgasberg. I guess I should clarify that I personally dislike it when musicians get up and support a particular candidate or political cause as opposed to making a broad political (small p) statement. Do they have the right to do it? Yeah, it just makes me cringe. There is a certain arrogance about it that bugs me and bores me and totally turns me off.

A song that is anti-war in general, or deals with the realities of war, like Pine Box, I'm fine with. A song that makes specific references to Politicians and Policies is going to be a skip track for me.

It's just a personal preference. I'm totally burned out on Politics, and I would go so far as to say I hate the subject passionately. I don't identify with any political party and research issues independently, coming to my own conclusions about how I feel and my position. I basically just want the government to stay the fvck out of my life and leave me alone. Protect the country from invasion, maintain the highways, and keep murderers and sexual predators behind bars. That's about it.

If PW wants to write about politics then I hardly think I can stop him. If that's what's on his mind then I guess I should want him to express those thoughts. I guess I'm just hoping he never does want to do that.

(oh, boy, talk about trying to avoid work.)

[bigbak]

angela said:

Boy, I sure hope so because the rock world really needs another self-important prick like Springsteen to keep us informed about politics and the state of the country.

If you and your husband get to the point that it's necessary to part ways (Hopefully never, as I am very pro working it out at all costs, but that's another board), I'm yours.

[Smorgasberg]

See, Bigbak, I don't uh ... ugh ... what's the problem? I think it's that guys like Springsteen have a big microphone, and guys like you and me don't (double entendre unintentional ). Does that mean that he's a douchebag for using it for whatever he wants? He played on a tour that was overtly and expressly political. If you supported Bush in the election, there is no way you were going to be tricked into buying a ticket.

You know by now where I'm coming from, and I'm not really debating politics, here. What I'm saying is this, I can't stand the public statements and musical statements of Toby Keith, or the highly publicized political views of Kid Rock. I might heap all kinds of derogatory terms on these guys, but what I am never ever tempted to say is, "Who the hell are they to lecture me on politics?" My attitude is truly, "Well that's just absolutely craptastic, boys, but thanks for sharing!"

Maybe you're just saying you don't like Springsteen (which is your God given right), but I detect an air of ,"How dare he?" that I just don't understand.

[HillBillyJunk]

i swear i heard him sing it like this in chicago...

"im hammered in the morning...im hammered..."

etc

that might explain it a bit better?

its also used on dan the common man sports talk show int he cities here...big twins fan so im guessing he may have heard it on there...alot...

[angela]

bigbak said:

If you and your husband get to the point that it's necessary to part ways (Hopefully never, as I am very pro working it out at all costs, but that's another board), I'm yours.

I'll keep that in mind. Colorado sounds nice.


Smorgy (can I call you Smorgy?), Toby Keith's political 'songs' irritate me just as much as Springsteen's so it's hardly just the left-wingers that chap my ass.

There are people out there who love Springsteen's political stuff. They respect him for taking a stand about something he believes in. That's great, hope that works out for him. Same with all the others. But it bores ME. That's all I'm saying. I think there's a big difference between saying I don't think someone CAN make Political statements and that I just wish they wouldn't because I don't LIKE it. There are consequences for every action, and the consequences that Springsteen faces for his Political stuff is that I think he's a prick. I'm sure he's upset. He's probably lobbying Kofi Annan to impose sanctions on me as we speak.

I'm very cynical, it's a character flaw I can't help. I think rock stars should get up on stage and sing about love and sex and beer and death but not Politics. It's not so much a "how dare he?" as a "shut the fvck up and sing Born to Run again."

[snickers]

*suddenly feels very old remembering the excitement generated by Live Aid*

[angela]

*tries very hard not to go off on a cynical tangent about Live Aid*

[snickers]

ok, so live aid may not have done much....
(or anything) to actually help the people it was supposed to...

but, you have to admit, duran duran rocked!

just kidding. (lately i feel like i need to say when i am kidding)

still, is it better to try and fail (even if it was doomed before it began) than to just not do anything? is it like playing the lottery....the odds are pretty much against it (something good happening), but why not try it anyway, on the off-chance it does?

*presents "incurable dork" i.d. card for your inspection*

and besides, i think not only duran duran played, but also culture club....surely that's worth some points?

(kidding, again)

[Smorgasberg]

angela said:

There are people out there who love Springsteen's political stuff.

We're never going to agree on this, and that's cool. To me, Springsteen doesn't really have any political stuff. He tells stories in songs, and this last election he played music in support of someone's campaign. That doesn't make his music political.

Even his post 9-11 album is quite consciously and deliberately politics free. It's about people experiencing that tragedy. I can actually think of two songs of his in which he might have had a political intent, "41 Shots" (talking about an actual police shooting) and "Born in the USA" (a story song that may have been intended to call attention to the plight of veterans). You might not like "Born in the USA" but it's not boring.

I'm thinking, hell, I like Steve Earle a lot more than I like Springsteen. I can only imagine what you think of him.

But do you really hate all politics in music? Think about that! That rules out:
The Clash
Bob Dylan
The Sex Pistols
John Lennon
Bob Marley
James Brown
Marvin Gaye
Jimi Hendrix playing the national anthem

Man, even Elvis had a political song in "Born in the Ghetto."

Again, it's perfectly okay to be annoyed by Springsteen, Steve Earle, the Dixie Chicks or anyone else speaking up politically (Sean Penn has annoyed the hell out of me and I both agree with his politics and think he's a great actor). I just disagree with the larger premise. I'd hate to see a world where rock stars stayed away from politics, in their music or their activism. I seriously mean that.

[GtrPlyr]

I have to agree with a lot of what Smorg has said.


And here's my two cents:

I'd rather have an artist be passionate about things, and voice they're opinion--whether or not I agree with it--than have them censor themselves, and be devoid of any personality just to please the masses. Art is about expressing things in life, and politics is part of life, so there should be nothing wrong with an artist expressing their viewpoint on this matter if they're so inclined. Some artists aren't inclined that way, and that's great, and some are, and that's cool too. The thing is, I like having a wide range of topics covered in music, that to me is not boring. Now, on the other hand, if we stuck to the tried and true formula of songs about girls and cars, that would most definitely get boring quickly (not that there's anything wrong with those type of songs ).

[angela]

Smorgasberg said:

To me, Springsteen doesn't really have any political stuff. He tells stories in songs, and this last election he played music in support of someone's campaign. That doesn't make his music political.

I'm thinking, hell, I like Steve Earle a lot more than I like Springsteen. I can only imagine what you think of him.

But do you really hate all politics in music? Think about that! That rules out:
The Clash
Bob Dylan
The Sex Pistols
John Lennon
Bob Marley
James Brown
Marvin Gaye
Jimi Hendrix playing the national anthem

Man, even Elvis had a political song in "Born in the Ghetto."

That's why I used the word 'stuff' (it's a technical term) instead of 'music'. All the Political stuff that comes out of his mouth, whether set to music or not. He comes across as a self-important prick. I don't know how else to put it.

My dislike of Politics in music is not a hard and fast rule. If it's done right I suppose I even like it. Won't Get Fooled Again is a perfect example of a political song that does it right. It's incredibly cynical though, perhaps that's why I like it.

Now to some of the specific artists you mentioned.

I saw Steve Earle live several years ago. It's the nearest I've been to suicide. I wanted to climb up on the state, commandeer his guitar, and lead the band in a cover of Louie Louie. Something, anything to make the damn show more interesting and give me back my will to live. And yeah, Louie Louie is more interesting than all the collective whiny works of Steve Earle. Instead I just walked out.

I don't hate Bob Dylan's early, political stuff but I never listen to it because I find it dull. If you've heard it once you've heard it a million times. If I never hear A Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall again I'm okay with that.

The Sex Pistols, well, I guess I always thought of them as a bit of a joke. I suppose if I wasn't 2 when they hit it big I might care about them but I don't. I don't want to get into the Clash because, while I like them a million times better than the Pistols, my ultimate opinion on them would probably get me kicked off this board, dragged into the street, and stoned to death.

John Lennon's Imagine is one of the most nauseatingly awful songs in the history of music. Seriously, I hate that song. Not because I dislike the IDEAS in the song (though I do think it would be a bit boring), but it's just so insipid. And Give Peace a Chance. *gag* I have to say I did like both of those songs when I was young and naive but then I grew up. I'll give Lennon a pass for Instant Karma though, which is a great song. Otherwise, no, I'm not a big fan.

Marley I've never liked. I suppose if I were high I might enjoy him, I don't know. That does seem to be a requirement though. Marvin Gaye... the songs on What's Going On I assume is what you're referring to. It's a beautiful album, I have loved it for many years. And the politics on it are pretty broad, thus they don't really irritate me. That album would definitely be an exception to my rule.

And doesn't everyone laugh all the way through In the Ghetto? I think maybe I have a problem. I have always laughed all the way through In the Ghetto and then cried all the way through Kentucky Rain.

I do have another exception to my rule about Politics in music. Public Enemy were fantastic. Really really fantastic. And the political songs were the best ones.

I guess I can come to this conclusion. If you're going to yammer on about politics then please make it interesting. And don't tell me who to vote for unless you want to be pelted with spitballs.

Did I mention how much I dislike Michael Stipe? blah blah blah...

[angela]

GtrPlyr said:

I'd rather have an artist be passionate about things, and voice they're opinion--whether or not I agree with it--than have them censor themselves, and be devoid of any personality just to please the masses.

I don't want them to worry about pleasing the masses, I want them to worry about pleasing ME!

[Monkey]

Good ol' John Lennon. Always great to be lectured on "giving peace a chance" by someone who gave money to the IRA.

[Smorgasberg]

Monkey said:

Good ol' John Lennon. Always great to be lectured on "giving peace a chance" by someone who gave money to the IRA.

God, I started to reply to this whole thing as if you said he donated to the NRA. I was going to say, "Jebus, that's the most ironic thing I've ever heard." Instead, it's just dumb.

Steve Earle, by the way, in addition to heroin, absolutely adored guns as a younger man. He had this in common with his hero, Townes Van Zandt. So, there they were, two frequently intoxicated and heavily armed singing cowboys. Must have been a hoot to be around.

[paulie]

i gotta say that i didn't expect much from "if i had a hammer" i thought it as kinda just a quirky cover song before i heard it live. then i heard it at mondays show and it fit in with the set perfectly. sounds like an old mats song. best cover ive heard.