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Post by anarkissed on Apr 7, 2016 22:26:12 GMT -5
That was funny as fuck...Both of them were really capable of just off-the-top-of-the head responses that were just fucking incredible...Self-deprecating but seemingly completely honest...Tommy's voice sounds weird, though...Like he's doing that late 70's Johnny Carson thing...
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Post by reverendbackwash on Apr 11, 2016 1:34:20 GMT -5
Apparently you have more info than me on this matter. I was under the impression that he truly turned things around after his split with Yoko. He found happiness raising Sean and having the family life he never had as a child. It's a shame we weren't able to see where things would have gone with him. I think just like with Paul, age had given him a perspective to right his assholeish ways. anarkissed is way off and you needs to be told. Lennon was not an asshole to people but a funny warm and friendly guy - especially to fans. Lennon said it is important to remember that the fan is King, and without them you are nothing as a performer. There is no comparison to the Mats' behavior at all.
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 11, 2016 9:23:44 GMT -5
I thought that Lennon was a jerk to people when he was drinking heavily and then he cleaned himself up. But then again, lots of people are jerks when they drink heavily.
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Post by hudson99 on Apr 11, 2016 16:47:36 GMT -5
When Lennon returned to the public eye in the months right before his death, he quite often talked about how he loved New York because he could walk around like a "normal person". Outside of the drunken "lost weekend" period where he was separated from Yoko, he was well-known to be an approachable person in New York. Despite some tabloid articles/books, it's pretty well taken as fact that Sean's birth really mellowed him out.
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Post by FreeRider on Apr 12, 2016 9:45:38 GMT -5
...Outside of the drunken "lost weekend" period where he was separated from Yoko, he was well-known to be an approachable person in New York. yeah, that was the period I was referring to when he was drunken jerk. My cousin did an intern with the Washington Post as a staff photographer back in the early 70's. He took this photograph of John and Yoko at some protest/rally here in DC. He told me that they were sitting on a park bench and that nobody had seemed to recognize them! So he started taking photos.
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Post by anarkissed on Apr 12, 2016 22:09:00 GMT -5
Aw, geez...Boy, that was a can of worms opened...But it made for interesting dialogue, no? My impression (and that's really all I operate from, impression...It's not like I hung out with John Lennon and knew him intimately)...Is that, he, throughout his entire life, was frequently quite capable of being a big dick and a complete asshole...And often, a really charming, funny, nice guy to hang out with...Like most people...Was it at its very nadir during the "Lost Weekend" phase? Probably...Had he always been a complete gentleman before that? I don't think so...I don't know...I think he sometimes had a predilection to be a little self-righteous, and make these huge statements judging other people, and pontificating about the way things really ought to be, when he wasn't necessarily exhibiting those in his own personal life...Or shit, that might have been me! Sorry, John...
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Chris
First Class Scout
Posts: 156
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Post by Chris on Apr 13, 2016 18:28:54 GMT -5
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Post by watts on Apr 14, 2016 1:13:50 GMT -5
I'll withhold judgement until I've read it (the Hennepin County Library system has 41 copies, and they've all been checked out for a couple months. Not giving anyone my money until I've read the thing).
I've got some first-hand insight into the characters of the 'Mats Tommy in my house in '84 - coulda got his ass kicked easily for the way he behaved; Slim was a real gent, but just chatted at his band's gigs; Bob (also at my house,different one though) was a very nice guy, but weird.
I just hope the memory of my late buddy Katie O is treated with respect. (assuming she's mentioned in the book)
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Post by TomT on Apr 18, 2016 19:28:56 GMT -5
I've never seen that video. Classic Paul and Tommy.
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Post by Hagbard on Apr 20, 2016 5:32:48 GMT -5
Anyone know how someone in Australia could watch that video? Not available in my area it seems.....
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Post by Hagbard on Apr 20, 2016 19:44:27 GMT -5
Scrap that! It's on YouTube.... What a hilarious interview.... Loved it when Paul gave his views on sampling.
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Post by brianlux on Jan 7, 2017 23:54:34 GMT -5
Way over due to read and respond to Trouble Boys (2016 was a busy year)so now at last, my thoughts:
My reaction to the book is on two very different planes: As a music biography, it's excellent- A+ I really admire Mehr's work here and am mightily impressed by his giving consistant attention to detail throughout without letting the fine points get in the way. It was a hard book too put down. Major kudos for this work.
On a personal level, I was devastated. Having been a long-time 'Mats fan I've been aware of the rougher side of these boys and certainly appreciate (and have myself been involved in a bit of) rowdiness and rebelliousness as a younger man, but unless Mehr has given an unrealistic and slanted view, the amount of abuse these guys heaped on others in the music business (including themselves and each other) is just flat out overwhelming for me. It's a bit mind boggling to think about what the boys got away with during these years. Yes, I know, "It's only rock and roll" and I get that but for my tastes anyway at some point it just becomes massively abusive. Sorry to say, I will never hear these records quite the same again.
That said, I did find some passages to be highly endearing. When I read the part on page 311 about Paul recording the vocals for "Rock 'n' Roll Ghost" I broke down in tears. I literally just sobbed. So yeah, obviously I still have much love for this band and I'm sure in many way the survivors have grown and matured (I would certainly hope so) and as much as I hold that there is beauty in truth and would never want it any other way, I will always miss the somewhat naive fascination I allowed myself to indulge in with this band for decades.
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Post by brianlux on Jan 9, 2017 20:08:36 GMT -5
Post script to the above: I am wont to edit some of my comments above but that's how I felt at the time. I had not quiet finished the book and was just overwhelmed by some of the negative shit. But then I think about my own and... yeah, well...
I am so happy Bob Mehr pointed out the loyal and hard work here of Scoutmaster Kathy in his "Acknowledgments" (yes, I read them all, doesn't everybody?). And yes, for all there glory and despite all their flaws, I love this band. Always will.
Congratulations, Bob Mehr, on your outstanding work.
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Post by anarkissed on Jan 9, 2017 22:26:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't know...I don't want to, and never would, condone abusive behavior...In fact, I have a really low tolerance for assholes and dickheads...But comparing this to other biographies and autobiographies of other artists that I have read ("Rotten" - John Lydon, "Shakey" - Neil Young, "Hammer of The Gods" - Led Zeppelin, biographies of Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, John Lennon), some of their bullshit seems pretty low-grade and not a little middle school... I think if The Mats had (in some alternate universe) somehow ended up on a bill with the Sex Pistols, and tried to pull any shit, they'd have gotten their asses kicked...
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Post by brianlux on Jan 9, 2017 22:50:18 GMT -5
Oh man! Picturing a Pistols/'Mats gig... rather frightening!
Yeah, I guess it's just something ingrained in rock 'n' roll. I've read a lot of rock biographies as well and notice the same trend. I recently read Keith Morris fine book, "My Damage". Talk about pulling some shit! Yet what a cool guys he's turned out to be. I met him at a book signing not long ago and what a great guy- really good dude.
So it seems there is a common thread that runs through so many of these shit-stirring artists I'm fans of ('Mats/Westerberg, Lydon, Young, Morris, Rollins and other) so many of them so obnoxious and despicable even as young men who grow up, learn, change and turn out to be much better people. That's certainly true from what I gather of all of the Replacements.
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Post by anarkissed on Jan 9, 2017 23:22:49 GMT -5
I left out Jim Morrison...Geez...Armchair psychology: I think many of these people, who though they may have had an inherent belief that they had something to say of value, were still artists, and sensitive, and susceptible to criticism, and maybe grew up with a long history of parents, and relatives, and friends saying: "Why don't you get a real job?" Then you get thrown into this world of club owners, and cranky sound engineers, and managers, and record company guys, and producers, and lawyers, and competing bands with guys with big egos, and maybe you just start to be an asshole in self-defense...I'm thinking it's pretty hard to be a good guy without getting eaten alive...Somebody like John Lydon...I've kinda followed him over the years because he is really smart and interesting though capable of being of being a colossal dickhead...But much later on, I really got the impression that he was, in the early years, just playing a role...Part of that was because it made a better show; part of that was that it sometimes intimidated people who might have otherwise beat the shit out of him...He has actually apologized to people over the years with the excuse that he was young and scared, and sometimes, kinda stupid...
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Post by brianlux on Jan 10, 2017 1:26:59 GMT -5
I left out Jim Morrison...Geez...Armchair psychology: I think many of these people, who though they may have had an inherent belief that they had something to say of value, were still artists, and sensitive, and susceptible to criticism, and maybe grew up with a long history of parents, and relatives, and friends saying: "Why don't you get a real job?" Then you get thrown into this world of club owners, and cranky sound engineers, and managers, and record company guys, and producers, and lawyers, and competing bands with guys with big egos, and maybe you just start to be an asshole in self-defense...I'm thinking it's pretty hard to be a good guy without getting eaten alive...Somebody like John Lydon...I've kinda followed him over the years because he is really smart and interesting though capable of being of being a colossal dickhead...But much later on, I really got the impression that he was, in the early years, just playing a role...Part of that was because it made a better show; part of that was that it sometimes intimidated people who might have otherwise beat the shit out of him...He has actually apologized to people over the years with the excuse that he was young and scared, and sometimes, kinda stupid... Have you read Lydon's ANGER IS AN ENERGY? It's great. Very honest- sometimes brutally so, but always honest to the core and surprisingly touching at times. And funny as hell, of course.
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Post by teddinard on Jan 18, 2017 8:15:58 GMT -5
I love the scene where he encounters Elvis Costello in the bar after All Shook Down is out.
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Post by anarkissed on Feb 6, 2017 2:48:49 GMT -5
I'm reading this for the second time...Up to the big promotional push for PTMM...They were obviously self-sabotaging themselves...But I kinda think, if they'd been sober, and thoughtful, and nice and polite to AOR FM program directors somewhere in the Midwest, would that really have made a difference? In commercial terms? I don't think so...Not that there is anything particularly admirable about their behavior...I just don't think it mattered...They were never gonna be R.E.M., much less Van Halen...Whether they said "fuck" live during an interview on radio or during a televised broadcast or not, most of America never knew about it, or would have cared if it had...I think they sensed that, and, in some ways, it was liberating, and, in some ways, profoundly depressing...
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Post by FreeRider on Feb 7, 2017 10:27:32 GMT -5
Hmmm, dunno. Maybe it wouldn't have made a difference in commercial terms, if you're talking about broad, mass appeal. But I could see where more radio play and exposure could've widened the fan base a bit more. I always felt that they had some songs that could compete with anything that was currently riding high on the charts at the time---and most of it was dreck! *shudder* The Billboard year end top 10 singles for 1987 Walk LIke an Egypitan - Bangles Alone - Heart Shake YOu Down - Gregory Abbott I wanna Dance With Somebody - Whitney HOuston Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now - Starship C'est La Vie - Robbie Nevil Here I go Again - Whitesnake The Way It Is - Bruce Hornsby and the Range Shakedown - Bob Seger Livin' On A Prayer - Bon Jovi The rest of the 100 is here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1987I look at that list and think, "Skyway, Alex Chilton, Valentine, Can't Hardly Wait could compete and kick high ass over a lot of, if not all, of those tunes..." But who knows? They imploded time and time again....whether it (better relations with the AOR stations, etc) matters or not? No, it doesn't matter. They created their own destiny, rooted in their own insecurities and dysfunctions, that there was no way they were going to be mainstream successes.
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