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Post by towilmusic on Feb 28, 2014 9:00:18 GMT -5
Michael Stipe's Achilles heel was his hair. Once it went, so did their creativity. He was the coolest front man in rock history: mysterious and different, WTF is he saying?/singing about? Once the labels MADE him stop mumbling, his cool presence disappeared b/c his lyrics are pretty bad to downright horrid I.E. I am exactly with you all....SHP was the dagger for me though "Green" was were I stopped listening. AFTP is still un-listenable. I'll go back to their 1st 5 records every few years while PW is pretty much on constantly.
Now Peter Buck taught me how to write/invent on the guitar. He is one of the most creative hack guitarists in history. From there Johnny Marr's influence took over for a few years in college, he's the Phil Spector of guitarists IMO. Ultimately, Lennon and Westy are by far my greatest influences and have been for this 45 year old.
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Post by TomT on Feb 28, 2014 19:02:52 GMT -5
Michael Stipe's Achilles heel was his hair. Once it went, so did their creativity. He was the coolest front man in rock history: mysterious and different, WTF is he saying?/singing about? It was certainly a big part of their appeal, the mystery that is. With no internet and not many published pictures or interviews going around in the early days it was an exciting band. They were THE band that got me really taking a look at indie stuff and getting away from classic rock. It's not a lie for me to say that REM changed my life.
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daveb
First Class Scout
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Post by daveb on Feb 28, 2014 19:54:07 GMT -5
For me, R.E.M. was the gateway drug to The Replacements and other alt-bands of the 80s. Saw them in 1983 when I happened to be in New York and went to the Police/Joan Jett/R.E.M. Shea Stadium show. IMHO they didn't make a slip through Green, and were still mostly listenable in the Out Of Time/Automatic For The People/Monster era. Yeah, the hung around too long, but that early body of work still stands up with the best of 'em.
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Post by anarkissed on Feb 28, 2014 21:09:19 GMT -5
Michael Stipe's Achilles heel was his hair. Once it went, so did their creativity. He was the coolest front man in rock history: mysterious and different, WTF is he saying?/singing about? Once the labels MADE him stop mumbling, his cool presence disappeared b/c his lyrics are pretty bad to downright horrid I.E. Though a big fan of those first three albums, "LRP" and "Document" were always my favorites...Since this is a band that ended up working together for over thirty years, I just don't think it would have been sustainable to just stick to the "indeciperable lyrics/jangling guitar mode" forever...Maybe the hardcore fan base wouldn't have gotten bored, but I'm sure they would have...I question the validity of the accusation that the "label" made them change; I think they at least concurred in it...And I actually think Stipe has frequently written some pretty great lyrics; try "World Leader Pretend" off "Green"...I will agree that I never cared for the bald head look, but, in his defense, I suspect that wasn't so much a stylistic choice as it was a concession to reality; I think he was starting to get a little thin up there...
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Schecky
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Post by Schecky on Mar 1, 2014 1:53:47 GMT -5
Same here - rabid fan of both in the 80s. I saw many great shows from REM, including an outdoor show in a driving rainstorm. Got sent home early from work because of the rainstorm. Tried to get everyone to go with me and nobody would, so I went solo and bought a ticket out front for cheap. Those of us that showed up were able to get real close to the stage. Awesome crowd vibe. The band fed off it and played a great set. articles.latimes.com/1986-09-26/entertainment/ca-9139_1_remfwiw-the amphitheater seated 18,000 back then, not 3,000. REM kinda drove me away, although I like parts of Up.
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Post by wiser's deluxe on Mar 1, 2014 4:11:40 GMT -5
I got into both bands at the same time around 1984. they were my go to music with REM the favorite until about '87 when Plesed To Meet Me came out. Then my Mats obsession took hold and REM, for the most part, fell by the wayside in the mid 90's. Mats obsession still going strong. I don't know if that study matters any or is accurate but there is a lightheartedness with the Mats alongside very meaningful subjects in the songs. REM didn't have the Mats humor with their stuff and seemed pretentious at times. I DO love the 80's REM though. Some really great albums in there. you're right. what changed, i think, though is the more we could decipher what stipe was singing the less we cared. by comparison, paul's verbal twists were apparent from the start. whether it was "shiftless when idle," or "if only you were lonely" the thrust of the song was quite apparent, as opposed to hide-and-seek quest of figuring out stipe's pretty persuasion mumbles. to me, it seemed, the more we were capable of figuring out what stipe was singing, the less it really meant with the exception of, perhaps, "losing my religion," which to me remains a classic. that said, paul let it all out from the beginning with all the irony and nuance as he could bare. maybe the fact that we could all sing along made a difference.
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Post by bigbak on Mar 4, 2014 20:04:03 GMT -5
Like many on this board I fell in love with both REM and the 'mats in the early '80's. And like many on this board, a schism occured in the later half of that decade that continues to this day. I think it had something to do with REM the band becoming more important than REM the creators of music.
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Post by anarkissed on Mar 4, 2014 23:54:20 GMT -5
Like many on this board I feel in love with both REM and the 'mats in the early '80's. And like many on this board, a schism occured in the later half of that decade that continues to this day. I think it had something to do with REM the band becoming more important than REM the creators of music. Yeah, I get that...It's two different approaches, both of which I really respect and relate to...R.E.M. matured...Grew up...Realized they couldn't be snotty punks forever...Worked within the system, maintained what integrity they could, went about their work (realizing those few thousand people who thought "Murmur" was the Second Coming would never forgive them), and made several more decent (and a couple of pretty forgettable) albums...The Replacements burned a comet across the sky, fired a founding member (somebody's brother, geez!), made a classic, tried to cooperate, and then went to shit...Heh...Boy, if that's not me, I don't know what is...God bless 'em both...Those are pretty much the two sides of my dualistic personality...The one that kinda gives a fuck, and the one that absolutely does not...What's incredible is that those two bands existed at the same time, at that point in my life...Synchronicity? If I didn't believe in God or Fate or whatever by then, I should have after...Heh...
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Post by hootenanny58 on Mar 5, 2014 22:23:48 GMT -5
See! Finally someone confirms my self-diagnosis. I just knew there had to be an explanation. The older I get the more I appreciate the Replacements for the excuse they've always been. Cool.
(BTW, That Hilltop Steaks cactus brings back memories of US 1, Saugus - or was that Revere? Or Reveeah? Funny. Across the highway northbound in the 80's used to be a strip mall with three rows of single story buildings running parallel to the road, each building housing three stores. The middle building held a gun shop, a liquor store and a bank. String together your own short story about the possibilities of that combination.)
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Post by folker on Mar 6, 2014 1:34:40 GMT -5
this is some deep stuff
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Mar 6, 2014 6:04:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I get that...It's two different approaches, both of which I really respect and relate to...R.E.M. matured...Grew up...Realized they couldn't be snotty punks forever...Worked within the system, maintained what integrity they could, went about their work (realizing those few thousand people who thought "Murmur" was the Second Coming would never forgive them), and made several more decent (and a couple of pretty forgettable) albums...The Replacements burned a comet across the sky, fired a founding member (somebody's brother, geez!), made a classic, tried to cooperate, and then went to shit... This is a good point, Anarkissed. You could make an argument that The Replacements tried and failed to do just what REM did - grow up. Maybe they never really wanted to, maybe they didn't have it in them, maybe they just didn't try hard enough, but they made a lot of concessions to their early ethos in the last couple years and for reasons we've been over and over, they paid the price for it ("went to shit" as you said) and the mainstream never latched on. Good points above about Stipe and lyrics too. REM taught me that lyrics in rock music don't have to be as important or more important than everything else. It was cool that you didn't know all the words to Pretty Persuasion, and the vocals were really just a 4th instrument, not necessarily the front and center focal point to each song, like, say, U2 or Springsteen. Props to those guys and people like Paul who do write great lyrics, but you don't need great lyrics to have a great song. They don't have to make sense, they don't even have to rhyme. They just have to work with everything else. Cheers to REM for that liberating revelation.
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Post by monkeytot on Mar 6, 2014 6:44:37 GMT -5
Good stuff, people! Now that's Internet that's fun and educational.
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timsch
First Class Scout
soothes the savage beast
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Post by timsch on Mar 12, 2014 13:20:57 GMT -5
Personally, I don't think enough credit is ever given to the tone of the human voice. There is just something about the tone of Strummer, Westerberg, Springsteen that just works with the instrumentation of their music. It just melds together. It's just right. As such, I will always prefer the Replacements over REM.
p.s I first saw REM as a warm up band for the English Beat at the student center ballroom at UK in Lexington in front of about 8oo people right after Murmur came out. Kentucky hicks dressed as Rude Boys. What a hoot (enanny)
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Post by kdennis57 on Mar 12, 2014 15:40:59 GMT -5
I saw R.E.M. often in the 80s - the best was the first time (isn't it always that way?), a packed show at The Bowery in Oklahoma City circa 1984-85. The dBs opened, finishing their set with All Night Long, the then-current top 40 hit by Lionel Richie. David Thomas (of Pere Ubu) was playing at the same time in the downstairs room. Yes, this was the scene of the infamous Replacements When The Shit Hits The Fans (?) recording if I am not mistaken.
I was once on a rate-a-record panel of mystery songs at Triple A Radio panel in Boulder, CO. about the time that R.E.M.s New Adventures In HiFi was about to be released. One of the tunes was the lead single, and everyone in the room recognized Stipe and company. While hailed by the rest of the panel, it felt to me like the band had finally run out of things to say. So I said the album would probably ship gold or even platinum, and then the unsold returns would begin to pile up at the warehouses a couple of months later. I don't think I was wrong. Every band runs out of inspiration, material, at some point, if they don't break up first. Like the Rolling Stones, I think the boys from Athens liked the lifestyle and the money, and figured they could keep cranking out respectable discs in their declining years.
One final thought - I learned about the Mats from an interview back in the day with John Doe of X, who mentioned Let It Be and said that Peter Buck had played a wicked mandolin on their record. I went right out and bought Let It Be and became a life-long fan. Thanks, John and Peter!
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Post by anarkissed on Mar 12, 2014 22:29:35 GMT -5
I was once on a rate-a-record panel of mystery songs at Triple A Radio panel in Boulder, CO. about the time that R.E.M.s New Adventures In HiFi was about to be released. One of the tunes was the lead single, and everyone in the room recognized Stipe and company. While hailed by the rest of the panel, it felt to me like the band had finally run out of things to say. So I said the album would probably ship gold or even platinum, and then the unsold returns would begin to pile up at the warehouses a couple of months later. I don't think I was wrong. Well, I think "E-Bow The Letter" was the lead-off single from that album, and that's actually probably one of the weakest songs on that album...I expect your predictions of its eventual commercial worth is probably correct, but I maintain that it is actually one of the best albums they had, certainly something of a rebound after that "Out of Time"/"AFTP"/"Monster" phase, and, being the last Bill Berry album, the best thing they'd do until "Accelerate", at least...Heh...It's always something...There are people who said it was all downhill after "Chronic Town"...
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Post by monkeytot on Mar 13, 2014 5:51:20 GMT -5
I was expecting a RE(M)surgence after Accelerate, but they went back to the same ol' same ol' on Do The Collapse Into Now. anarkissed is making me want to go back and listen to NAIHF. Christ, am I going to get back into REM again? Isn't that assign of Gen X midlife crisis?
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Post by GtrPlyr on Mar 13, 2014 9:42:31 GMT -5
New Adventures in Hi-Fi is probably the last really good R.E.M. record as far as I'm concerned. Definitely one of their more underappreciated releases. In the last few years I'd say it's the record I've listened to most from them funnily enough.
p.s. I'm with you Anarkissed, except for the part about 'E-Bow the Letter' being one of the weaker tracks on that album. I don't know, to my ears that song still holds up. I love the moody atmosphere of the song, plus it's great having Patti Smith on the track.
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Post by GtrPlyr on Mar 13, 2014 10:01:45 GMT -5
Personally, I don't think enough credit is ever given to the tone of the human voice. There is just something about the tone of Strummer, Westerberg, Springsteen that just works with the instrumentation of their music. It just melds together. It's just right. As such, I will always prefer the Replacements over REM. Yes, I've always maintained that the tone/sound of the voice, and how a song is delivered is probably the most important aspect in how a song is received by a listener. Moreso than the lyrics. A song with so-so lyrics if sung with the right amount of conviction and passion can totally win me over. It's all in the delivery and how it's couched musically*. *I don't think Richard Thompson is a great singer necessarily--I am a fan nevertheless--but this is a good example of how a singer can transform a song just by they way they arrange and sing it:
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