Squaw
Star Scout
You're the only one that you are screwin' when you put down what you don't understand~ Kristofferson
Posts: 544
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Post by Squaw on Mar 5, 2011 21:40:09 GMT -5
But even they have had creative peaks and valleys, and in the case of Dylan, it's been years since he's been revelent musically. But his past accomplishments have earned him the right to do whatever he damn pleases, whether it connects with others or not. Blasphemy! If nothing else, Dylan makes music history, thereby making him relevant. I think his last ten years has been outstanding, musically and lyrically.
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bombpop
Star Scout
take me where the action ain't
Posts: 541
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Post by bombpop on Mar 5, 2011 23:38:54 GMT -5
But even they have had creative peaks and valleys, and in the case of Dylan, it's been years since he's been revelent musically. But his past accomplishments have earned him the right to do whatever he damn pleases, whether it connects with others or not. Blasphemy! If nothing else, Dylan makes music history, thereby making him relevant. I think his last ten years has been outstanding, musically and lyrically. I agree. I love his last three or four albums, and think they hold up really well against most things he's done. I'm most impressed by the fact that he seems to be having a blast making these records. And that translates. They not only sound good, but they're fun to listen to. That combination will always keep anyone's music relevant.
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Post by wecantgetanybetter on Mar 6, 2011 1:22:51 GMT -5
I for one would be fine if the Replacements had stayed together and were still doing shows and making records.
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Post by filipinojew33 on Mar 6, 2011 16:19:49 GMT -5
in reply to bands that should have broken up by now, I think Mike Ness still has it. I saw Social D few weeks back promoting the new album and it was solid. He's clearly been listening to the Stones.
There's a lotta bands out there nowadays that are trying pretty hard to cop the replacements (not matchbox or goo goo anymore but) or get compared to them but they can't sing like Paul (i.e. hold steady, chuck regan, gaslight anthemn, new against me and a bunch of others).
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daveb
First Class Scout
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Post by daveb on Mar 7, 2011 13:14:56 GMT -5
I'm glad Dylan still has his loyal fans out there, but to me he's the athlete that hung on too long. Even if some people like his newer material, I don't know how anyone can compare it to his creative peak from the early 60's to the mid 70's. It's not even close. And to try to justify his relevance by album sales? On a Westerberg board no less?
Sadly shaking my head.
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Squaw
Star Scout
You're the only one that you are screwin' when you put down what you don't understand~ Kristofferson
Posts: 544
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Post by Squaw on Mar 7, 2011 14:46:47 GMT -5
I'm glad Dylan still has his loyal fans out there, but to me he's the athlete that hung on too long. Even if some people like his newer material, I don't know how anyone can compare it to his creative peak from the early 60's to the mid 70's. It's not even close. And to try to justify his relevance by album sales? On a Westerberg board no less? Sadly shaking my head. Are you no longer relevant? You’re older now and like all of us you’ve lost some things and gained others. Dylan has not stopped being Dylan, so if he was ever relevant, he still is. When he dies, guess what? He’ll still be relevant. One is not defined simply by their very best moment in history, though that may be how some most remember them. Is Mohammed Ali relevant? What about Mother Teresa? I guess I don’t follow your way of thinking, perhaps I missed the point. It seems to me that in following your logic, Westerberg, Dylan and others should not release any new material because it will not be as good as their magnum opus. Musical taste is very subjective and you certainly have the right to dislike anything you wish. But when I listen to Mr. F or Dylan’s “Together Through Life”, it isn’t out of charity or fondness for what they used to be. I listen to it because I like it.
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Post by willr on Mar 7, 2011 15:46:03 GMT -5
I'm glad Dylan still has his loyal fans out there, but to me he's the athlete that hung on too long. Even if some people like his newer material, I don't know how anyone can compare it to his creative peak from the early 60's to the mid 70's. It's not even close. And to try to justify his relevance by album sales? On a Westerberg board no less? Sadly shaking my head. i have to agree with this sorta, dylan just isnt performing at the level he once did and probably never will, with his voice and all for one. there is more hype in old unreleased stuff then his newer stuff too.
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Post by anarkissed on Mar 7, 2011 19:45:45 GMT -5
I'm glad Dylan still has his loyal fans out there, but to me he's the athlete that hung on too long. Even if some people like his newer material, I don't know how anyone can compare it to his creative peak from the early 60's to the mid 70's. It's not even close. And to try to justify his relevance by album sales? On a Westerberg board no less? Sadly shaking my head. I don't think anyone has attempted to compare his newer material to his "creative peak"...Actually, I think the consensus has been that while virtually all artists do indeed have such a peak, that doesn't mean they shouldn't continue to work after that peak has been reached...Album sales certainly don't necessarily reflect quality, and obviously represent popularity, but I'd have to say they could be seen as indicating relevance...If a lot of people are purchasing that album, whether it's great or a piece of crap, it must matter to them, hence it is relevant...
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Post by brianlux on Mar 7, 2011 21:25:08 GMT -5
Let's look at this from another angle- from that of the life of a famous painter: Rembrandt. As he aged, Rembrandt's eyes became very blurred, his hands less steady. If you study his work as he ages, you see him becoming less technically proficient yet more sure of himself in his work. The later paintings reflect wisdom and grace which is gained only through the long struggle that is life. Aging never renders the truly great artist irrelevant.
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Squaw
Star Scout
You're the only one that you are screwin' when you put down what you don't understand~ Kristofferson
Posts: 544
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Post by Squaw on Mar 7, 2011 22:57:33 GMT -5
Let's look at this from another angle- from that of the life of a famous painter: Rembrandt. As he aged, Rembrandt's eyes became very blurred, his hands less steady. If you study his work as he ages, you see him becoming less technically proficient yet more sure of himself in his work. The later paintings reflect wisdom and grace which is gained only through the long struggle that is life. Aging never renders the truly great artist irrelevant. That's what I am getting at..."evolution Grandpa!". Westerberg and Dylan aren't dead yet. Their best work may be in front of them; we can't say. Paul Newman is an example of someone that had his best performances later in life. Unless one suffers from a disability or impairment, we can't speculate what their peak is or was. Obviously, Mohammed Ali is disabled and is no longer a contender, so we can safely identify his prime performance period. Look how Robert Plant outdone himself on his vocals for "Raising Sand". Either way, relevance is not the issue. Beethoven is still relevant and he never made Billboard.
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RickVee
Dances With Posts
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Post by RickVee on Mar 7, 2011 23:25:54 GMT -5
R.E.M. should've broken up by '99 - like they originally planned. Their music's been so uninspired for over 10 years now.
I'd have like to have seen The Clash (the line-up with Mick Jones of course) make another album or two.
The 'Mats timed it about right imo.
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Post by brianlux on Mar 8, 2011 1:34:07 GMT -5
Nicely said, above, Squaw.
RickVee, have you given REM's "Live at the Olympia in Dublin, 39 Songs" a listen? If not, please do. To me ears at least, many of these renditions of numbers from REM's lengthy catalog sound very fresh and highly inspired. I was really amazed by what I would described as a great comeback album for this band. Anyone else feel this way?
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Squaw
Star Scout
You're the only one that you are screwin' when you put down what you don't understand~ Kristofferson
Posts: 544
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Post by Squaw on Mar 8, 2011 2:51:48 GMT -5
Nicely said, above, Squaw. RickVee, have you given REM's "Live at the Olympia in Dublin, 39 Songs" a listen? If not, please do. To me ears at least, many of these renditions of numbers from REM's lengthy catalog sound very fresh and highly inspired. I was really amazed by what I would described as a great comeback album for this band. Anyone else feel this way? Thanks brianlux! And we agree once again. It was just last night that I put that disc on! What are the odds of that?! And anarkissed.....well said, I think you hit the nail on the head.
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Post by raccoon on Mar 8, 2011 7:53:52 GMT -5
Regarding Pearl Jam - I was mostly trying to get a rise with that one on my list of bands that should break up. I know we have some fans of them on here. They are a pretty good band.
R.E.M.?? They still have gas in the tank. Good things will come. Olympia was fantastic and Accelerate is a fine record. The new cd releases soon. They have enlisted reknowned filmmakers (and James Franco lol) to shoot 'videos' of each song on this effort. I am not sure if they are meant to be viewed seperately or seen as a whole unified feature.
Any talk of decline in Dylan's work is sadly misguided. There is high water everywhere.
One last band that should have broken up WAAAAY before they actually did : Jefferson Airplane (or Starship or Slick's Shotgun etc..)
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Mar 8, 2011 9:32:42 GMT -5
Really? Cool Hand Luke, Butch & Sundance, Slap Shot, The Verdict... to name just a couple classics. He did well in his later movies, and had some standouts, but I have to think his earler performances set the bar.
Nah, Accelerate was a great record, their most inspired since ...Pageant IMO. I'm not always into what they do, but there is a need for REM in music today.
This debate could have it's own section on the board it seems. The Mats pulled off losing Bob on PTMM, but that would have been a good time to call it - after that tour. DTAS has its merits, sure, but most of the magic was gone. ASD should have been the PW solo record it was supposed to be. Especially considering Chris was gone by then too.
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Post by raccoon on Mar 8, 2011 10:39:01 GMT -5
RE: Newman Don't forget Hud and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.
The Cult also should have broken up years ago...
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Post by dee on Mar 8, 2011 11:15:19 GMT -5
I can't think of anyone who's last four albums were as solid as Dylans,so maybe everyone should just hang it up.Kind of a high standard to hold Dylan to if he is the only one who has to live up to it,while everyone else gets a free pass to make music that doesn't even aspire to the levels of Dylans genius,because they can't even concieve of it...not just then,but now as well.I don't know how anyone could have listened to Time Out Of Mind,Love And Theft,Modern Times,and Together Through Life and imply that Dylan has no relevance in current music or has lost it.The reason to bring up chart success is because at his age,it is an anomaly to still be in the game,and he wouldn't be if he weren't creating at the high level of expectation that his name implies.
Nobody has matched Dylans creative peak and no one will claim to have.When asked if he could still do what he did in the 60's,Dylan said,he couldn't,but that he was glad that he DID do it once.He's going on fifty years as a creative artist in the music business and he's never really slowed down,it's understandable that it may take some time for people to take it all in.It's easier just to write him off.If there is anything by someone else out there these days making him irrelevant I'd like to know what it is.I'd love to listen to it!His latest phase is so sublte and funny and so tongue in cheek and personal,with great observation,and the almost uneasy climate of the oppressive wasteland that is the modern world is around every turn.The music is great.The music!
I'll see your smug gesture and raise you a Booyah or something Daveb
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Post by brianlux on Mar 8, 2011 11:29:06 GMT -5
Regarding Pearl Jam - I was mostly trying to get a rise with that one on my list of bands that should break up. I know we have some fans of them on here. They are a pretty good band. R.E.M.?? They still have gas in the tank. Good things will come. Olympia was fantastic and Accelerate is a fine record. The new cd releases soon. They have enlisted reknowned filmmakers (and James Franco lol) to shoot 'videos' of each song on this effort. I am not sure if they are meant to be viewed seperately or seen as a whole unified feature. Any talk of decline in Dylan's work is sadly misguided. There is high water everywhere. One last band that should have broken up WAAAAY before they actually did : Jefferson Airplane (or Starship or Slick's Shotgun etc..) Good points all around raccoon (although you gotta know you'll get a snicker out of us P.J. fans regarding, "They are a pretty good band." ) And, sadly, I have to agree about Starship. Grace Slick is so smart and so knowledgable about rock and roll and made such great records early on with The Airplane. Any fan of that earlier work can only hope that someday she re-emerges with something really strong. In the meantime, at least we have her memoir "Somebody to Love?: A Rock-and-Roll Memoir".
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bside
Star Scout
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Post by bside on Mar 8, 2011 14:01:35 GMT -5
That's what I am getting at..."evolution Grandpa!". Westerberg and Dylan aren't dead yet. Their best work may be in front of them; we can't say. Paul Newman is an example of someone that had his best performances later in life. Unless one suffers from a disability or impairment, we can't speculate what their peak is or was. Obviously, Mohammed Ali is disabled and is no longer a contender, so we can safely identify his prime performance period. Look how Robert Plant outdone himself on his vocals for "Raising Sand". Either way, relevance is not the issue. Beethoven is still relevant and he never made Billboard. Newman essentially set the bar for salad dressing in his later years.
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Squaw
Star Scout
You're the only one that you are screwin' when you put down what you don't understand~ Kristofferson
Posts: 544
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Post by Squaw on Mar 8, 2011 17:31:35 GMT -5
When it comes to Newman he was pretty flawless. Everything he done was good, even his line of food products which benefit charity. His Vodka Sauce is killer by the way! Maybe he wasn't the best racecar driver, but he was still good, winning races in his 70's. I wasn't devaluing any of his past work, just pointing out that he continued to hone his craft till the day he died. And in the case of Newman, he even aged well, always looking good!
P.S. I could listen to him sing Plastic Jesus all day long!
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