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Post by wecantgetanybetter on Jun 2, 2010 0:03:19 GMT -5
In that excellent tale Dave Minehan tells in the first teaser at the "Color Me Obsessed" website, Strummer says (joke spoiler alert): "I don't mean to shoot the messenger, but could you do me a favor and tell Paul Westerberg that some people actually like the way I sing?" Pretty sure I have seen where Paul said something along those lines, but it sent me back to the one place where I've seen Strummer comment on Paul's band. In a book called "Let Fury have the Hour," Anthony Roman of the band Radio 4 tells about a chat with Strummer in the late 80s. They talk about the song "Clampdown," then "we discussed reggae, Latin music, the Replacements (he wasn't a fan)..." |
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Post by Man Who Never Learned to Fly on Jun 2, 2010 3:06:02 GMT -5
Interesting. Paul mentions the Clash twice in Mats songs, and he does seem ambivalent: "Shape up": "I like the New York Dolls and the Clash..." And then in "Get Lost," he says something like "you say you're a fan of the Clash, and that's fine. I like KISS." Of course, those are both songs from a 20-year old Paul, so it's hard to say what they mean or whether they reflect what Paul's feelings on Strummer and the Clash were. Tommy, at least, seems to have been a fan of Joe Strummer: Q. You were a pretty young guy when you started making music, so yeah, some of the well-established people you worked with back then — producers and other musicians and people like that — they’re probably getting up there in years, I would imagine. And obviously a lot of your musical influences and so on. A. Yeah. The hardest one, and the one that made me really freak out, was when Joe Strummer died. That was like a fucking kick in the head. He was 50. You know? When I think in terms of that, Alex was 59 and Joe Strummer was 50. There’s not a great life expectancy for rock and roll to begin with, and I’m sitting here going, well, I’m only 43 but shit, that could be like 69 by regular age. It just puts things into a perspective that’s not real good. Like, I didn’t really sign up for that part of the rock n roll life [laughs]. blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/music/2010/03/22/mmm-exclusive-the-replacements-and-guns-n-roses-tommy-stinson-talks-to-us-about-alex-chilton/ |
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cford
Star Scout
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Post by cford on Jun 2, 2010 9:50:04 GMT -5
On that excellent Dave Minehan tells in the first teaser at the "Color Me Obsessed" website, Strummer says (joke spoiler alert): "I don't mean to shoot the messenger, but could you do me a favor and tell Paul Westerberg that some people actually like the way I sing?" Pretty sure I have seen where Paul said something along those lines, but it sent me back to the one place where I've seen Strummer comment on Paul's band. In a book called "Let Fury have the Hour," Anthony Roman of the band Radio 4 tells about a chat with Strummer in the late 80s. They talk about the song "Clampdown," then "we discussed reggae, Latin music, the Replacements (he wasn't a fan)..." Its interesting that Dave Minehan was recalling a meeting with Strummer back in 1993.. I know that in recent years Paul has made statements that he was not a big Clash fan -- presumably for their political stance. I remember reading those statements with surprise, assuming that Paul would be a fan. But, I do not recall any similar statements prior to '93.. Of course I coulda missed 'em..Strummer must have been a pretty astute follower of the rock press to pick up on Westerberg's Clash position. CF |
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Post by deebee76 on Jun 2, 2010 15:12:19 GMT -5
I remember an interview where Paul was saying as a teenager he bought "Never Mind The Bollocks" and the first Clash album at the same time, and he brought back the Clash album the same day. Something along those lines, anyway...
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Post by BronxTeacher on Jun 2, 2010 16:09:56 GMT -5
I recall Paul mentioning something about hearing his sister play the Clash through his bedroom wall, but he seemed to feel ambivalent about them. I believe he said he liked the first album, but found nothing in "Sandinista" and their political songs that appealed to him.
I think he also said something along the lines that he saw the Clash live, and it was a major event in his life but not necessarily for the music itself. The guy just does not like overtly political music.
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Post by wecantgetanybetter on Jun 2, 2010 16:51:02 GMT -5
I recall Paul mentioning something about hearing his sister play the Clash through his bedroom wall, but he seemed to feel ambivalent about them. I believe he said he liked the first album, but found nothing in "Sandinista" and their political songs that appealed to him. I think he also said something along the lines that he saw the Clash live, and it was a major event in his life but not necessarily for the music itself. The guy just does not like overtly political music. i saw something like that in Mojo I think. PW saw the Clash somewhere small, maybe it was the Longhorn Bar in MPLS, and was blown away by the intensity of the three-guitar attack. Not the songs so much since they didn't speak to his experience, but the energy. |
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Post by ClamsCasino on Jun 2, 2010 20:34:57 GMT -5
Strummer's comment implies that Paul said something about not liking his voice, which is a criticism that Paul's made about a few singers--Robin Zander, for one. I just don't recall him ever saying it about Strummer.
As for the political angle, it's funny that Paul's always seemed on the surface to be apolitical, because when it comes to social politics he wrote what might be one most politically progressive songs of the '80s with Androgynous. At least it's the sweetest and healthiest song about gender politics that I can think of.
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Post by wecantgetanybetter on Jun 2, 2010 23:20:27 GMT -5
From Bill Flanagan's (cover?) 1987 story on the Replacements in Musician magazine (via the Replacements Bible:
Kind of an introspective guy. Yet a whole lot of rock fans are anxious for the Replacements to pick up the mantle carried so long by the Stones and dropped by the Clash -- who decided they didn't want it. In fact, we could get some of our college trained rock psychologists to explain how the Replacements are filling the void left by the Clash -- the need for an uncompromising, defiant punk band with hearts of gold. The Give 'Em Enough Rope opening salvo of the Replacements' "Bastards of Young" made a strong claim for that Clash territory. Only one problem: "I never liked the Clash," Westerberg says. "Joe couldn't sing and he can't sing. I drop my voice. Maybe they're nice guys and true to their beliefs and they're a tough rock band, but i never liked them. I bought the Sex Pistols and the first Clash album and I returned the Clash the same day."
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Post by Man Who Never Learned to Fly on Jun 3, 2010 8:25:44 GMT -5
Ah hah! I suspect that quote has at least a little bit of PW posturing in it. He likes to play the contrarian.
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Post by wecantgetanybetter on Jun 3, 2010 9:17:40 GMT -5
Strummer must have been a pretty astute follower of the rock press to pick up on Westerberg's Clash position. In 1987, Strummer was in his Wilderness Years between the Clash and the Mescaleros. He probably had lots of time to read mags like Musician. |
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cford
Star Scout
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Post by cford on Jun 3, 2010 9:38:54 GMT -5
Ah hah! I suspect that quote has at least a little bit of PW posturing in it. He likes to play the contrarian. Ah! Mystery solved... Of course, Paul makes so many provocative statements that they tend to run together. CF |
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Jun 3, 2010 10:26:48 GMT -5
Although he was between bands around this time he was super busy. He did a couple soundtracks and short movie roles, and more impressively toured with the Pogues on guitar (which he would do again a couple years later, on vocals).
He was always very well read and articulate when it came to talking about music. Given where the Replacements were around this time I'm not surprised that they were at least on his radar.
What a loss. Still hits hard.
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Post by Man Who Never Learned to Fly on Jun 3, 2010 21:38:27 GMT -5
PW saying that Joe can't sing is like someone saying they don't like the way Bob Stinson played guitar.
Oh, wait.... Paul said that too.
I love Paul and the Replacements and I love Joe and the Clash. Two of the best frontmen ever and two of the best bands ever.
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Post by GoddamnJob290 on Jun 4, 2010 12:42:38 GMT -5
Paul's opinions are kinda funny. I've seen interviews with him from 1989 where he talks about how much he likes the Pixies. I like the Pixies too, but if Joe can't sing, than Black Francis REALLY can't sing. But, then, Paul never made much bones about his limited vocal range either and was often the first to point it out.
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Post by gowhileucan on Jun 5, 2010 15:48:53 GMT -5
Paul has pretty exceptional musical taste and I say that because he pretty much has my taste (ha ha). I also never loved The Clash mostly for the political angle. But I did "like" them and respect them and admire their energy.
Pauls' favorite stuff tends to be my kind of stuff - Stones, Faces, Chilton, Thunders - none of it is politically motivated. Even the Pistols stuff Paul was later backhanded about - he was not into Steve Jones on his show and he gave one interview where he said that British punk could never really speak to him because he didn't know anything about the Queen.
Everybody knows US Punk - Dolls, Thunders, Ramones was the good stuff, and when Paul dug UK bands he dug ones that were poppy (The Only Ones, etc.).
As for the Pixies - I think Paul had a phase where he dug them when they were around. I don't think that lasted too long though to the extent that they were a fave band of his or anything like that.
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Post by FreeRider on Jun 7, 2010 11:11:43 GMT -5
...As for the political angle, it's funny that Paul's always seemed on the surface to be apolitical, because when it comes to social politics he wrote what might be one most politically progressive songs of the '80s with Androgynous. At least it's the sweetest and healthiest song about gender politics that I can think of. There is a quote that I cannot find where Paul explicity says in an interview that politics has no business being in rock and roll. Here is an excerpt from Rolling Stone , 11/17/94, by David Wild: What did you make of punk at first?
I loved it I don' t love it so much now. I can go back and still listen to the Pistols record, but I have a hard time listening to, say, the Damned or the Jam.
Did you respond to it musically or politically?
It wasn't the lyrics at all.
So you weren't pissed off at the queen?
Exactly. That stuff didn't mean anything to a kid who grew up in the Midwest. The truth is that the only politics any of us ever cared about was the politics of being cool . With punk, it was like Black Sabbath, but they weren't singing about iron, mystical, weird shit. It was "fuck you" and "fuck that," and we loved that. |
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Jer
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Post by Jer on Jun 7, 2010 12:37:09 GMT -5
That Rolling Stone bit is interesting. He says he couldn't relate to the political lyrics at all, and that stuff didn't matter to a midwest kid, but then he says he can still listen to the Pistols record. Funny how a band like The Jam was way less political than the Pistols, but he can't listen to them anymore.
I liked the Pistols and even U2 when I was that age, but I grew tired of God Save The Queen and the messages in U2's more political stuff fairly early. BUT...I can still go listen to The Jam and continue to get a lot out of Weller's lyrics at the time, even still.
Of course the Pistols weren't always political, and The Jam were at times political, and The Clash were probably more so than both (and went about it in a more educated and enlightning way), but I think Paul might have been playing it down a bit. Musically, that Pistols record absolutely holds up, but I just don't see him putting Never Mind The Bullocks on very often these days....
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Post by GoddamnJob290 on Jun 7, 2010 18:22:42 GMT -5
I think that's because of all the British punks, Weller was maybe the most like Westerberg. I mean, a song like "Thick As Thieves" is heartfelt and meaningful in the same way "Bastards of Young" is. I always felt that whenever Weller was screaming about youth rebellion and all that trendy stuff, his approach was closer to Ray Davies: more social observation than anything. Of course, Westerberg was never above making a statement ("Androgynous," "Unsatisfied," "Bastards of Young," "Left of the Dial," "We'll Inherit the Earth," heck even "The Ledge has some extra social resonance aside from its more personal/character sketch connotations). In the opinion of many, Westerberg was at his best when he was reaching for such ambitious heights.
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Post by thepogo on Jun 7, 2010 19:29:31 GMT -5
I think PW dug how the Pistols were almost like cartoon characters and had this fuck you attitude. The Replacements were just like them.
In fact, Pistols shows had the exact same quality as The Replacements shows did. Either they were absolutely great or completely stunk.
I think Joe Strummer was a genius and I hate that he's gone.
My favorite two writers
1. PW
2. Joe Strummer
But I think The Replacements and the Sex Pistols were cut from the same cloth.
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Jer
Beagle Scout
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Post by Jer on Jun 7, 2010 20:32:45 GMT -5
Exactly what I was thinking - well put. Weller's lyrics always stood out as a notch above most other stuff of the era. And, also why I was surprised when Paul said he can listen to the Pistols but not The Jam.
I agree that there are similarities between the Mats and the Pistols, but one glaring difference that people tend to forget about the Pistols is that they were fabricated and calculated from the start. The Mats were spontanious and flying by the seats of their pants for the first few years.
Yeah, he was in top form too. So much integrity.
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